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View Full Version : A guide to Pink Floyd recordings...would this info be accurate?



SM7609
09-25-2010, 01:50 PM
Hey all!

I've started working on pulling together all the disparate pieces of information about circulating PF audio and video together in one convenient location, really just because I'm a writer and I like organizing this stuff.

Below is a sample of the beginning of this work, based mostly on the ********* DotP CD (it's not complete, even in the time period it covers--I mostly only used the one CD. I'll fill in everything later). My question is this: would the info as presented here be basically accurate? It's not all that well thought-out; it's just something I did yesterday afternoon ;)

Thanks for any thoughts you may have! SP is me, BTW :)



1965-05-00 (exact date unknown, approximate date comes from Bob Klose)
LOCATION: Regent Sound Studios, London, England (possible location).
TRACKS: Lucy Leave, I’m A King Bee.
BEST SOURCE: Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********).

*********: The original 5-member Pink Floyd line-up. With Bob Klose on lead guitar and Syd Barrett on rhythm guitar. Possibly recorded at Regent Sound studio around May 1965 (according to Bob Klose whose memory seems a bit better than Nick Mason's on the subject) (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: The revised versions of Dawn Of The Piper replace redundant BBC tracks with new material. In some cases, this material is rather rare. Along with the ********* release What Syd Wants, this would be the definitive source for most of the early Floyd material.



1966-10-31 (exact date unknown)
LOCATION: Thompson Private Recording Studios, London, England (possible location).
TRACKS: Interstellar Overdrive (from San Francisco film soundtrack).
BEST SOURCE: Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********).

*********: Recorded at Thompson Private Recording Studios on 31 October 1966 (or there about) (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: The date of the recording of the San Francisco soundtrack version of “Interstellar” is disputed by a number of collectors. Truth be told, no one knows with certainty when this track was recorded, but this is (and probably will remain) the best guess. It is certainly an early arrangement of “Interstellar”, although given the not-exactly-fixed nature this song that could mean very little. As the story goes, San Francisco director Anthony Stern was given a tape of “Interstellar” by Syd Barrett.



1967-01-23 through 25
LOCATION: Sound Techniques, London, England.
TRACKS: Arnold Layne, Candy And A Currant Bun (acetate versions).
BEST SOURCE: Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********).

*********: Taken from the original acetates demoed to EMI. Recorded at Sound Techniques studio from 23-25 January 1967. After hearing these acetates, EMI signed Pink Floyd to a recording contract
on 1 February 1967. When they created this Arnold Layne acetate, they cut out the organ solo. I don't know why they did that. Knowing that EMI would object to the drug references in the lyrics to Let's Roll Another One, Syd rewrote them to create this Candy and a Currant Bun acetate. EMI still objected to
the "I'm high" lyrics anyway. So the band had to go back to Sound Techniques and rerecord [the vocal] (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: The edit on “Arnold Layne” is so haphazard that I could never imagine that the record was ever meant to go out like that. More likely for me is the idea that this is a “reference mix” allowing the band/producer to check out the “vocal” portions of the performance, or—even more likely—the original acetate had defects during the organ solo and were excised for the transfer to tape (or digital) in the 1980s or 1990s.



1967-02-27
LOCATION: Studio 3, EMI Studios, Abbey Road, London, England.
TRACKS: Interstellar Overdrive (French EP mix).
BEST SOURCE: The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn 40th Anniversary Edition CD (EMI).

*********: Taken from the French EP released 11 April 1967. Pink Floyd attempted to create a shorter version of IO especially for France during recording sessions on 16 March and 22 March 1967.
These were abandoned. The French version was edited from the same source used for the LP (recorded 27 February 1967), just a different mix (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn LP version of “Interstellar” is an overlay of two separate performances, the latter with the band performing atop the first performance (the overdub recorded at EMI on June 27, 1967). The French EP features the initial, or “bed/foundation” performance on its own. It was reissued on the 2007 Deluxe CD Edition of Piper.



1967-03-16
LOCATION: Studio 3, EMI Studios, Abbey Road, London, England.
TRACKS: Flaming (US single mix).
BEST SOURCE: The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn 40th Anniversary Edition CD (EMI).

*********: Taken from the French EP released 11 April 1967. Pink Floyd attempted to create a shorter version of IO especially for France during recording sessions on 16 March and 22 March 1967.
These were abandoned. The French version was edited from the same source used for the LP (recorded 27 February 1967), just a different mix (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: There is, in fact, no difference between this mix and the UK Piper At The Gates Of Dawn LP mono mix.



1967-05-21 (actual date unknown, but it is certainly around 21st May)
LOCATION: Sound Techniques, London, England.
TRACKS: See Emily Play (acetate version 1)*, See Emily Play (acetate version 2)**.
BEST SOURCE: What Syd Wants (*********)*, Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********).

*********: Taken from acetate #2 of 21 May 1967 recordings made at Sound Techniques. Two acetates are known. They are numbered 1 and 2 based on the order in which they were discovered. This second acetate features a slightly extended ending (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: Two acetates of “Emily” are in circulation among collectors; both contain rough mixes of the track. This first acetate is distinguished from the other by a noticeably lower placement in the mix for the vocals during the last verse. The second “Emily” acetate is quite a different mix to that of the released single (or even acetate #1). The vocals are very dry (i.e. little to no reverb) during the choruses, and the fade out of the track is slightly longer than any other variation.



1967-00-00 (date unknown)
LOCATION: Unknown, possibly EMI Studios, Abbey Road, London, England.
TRACKS: “Experiment” (exact title unknown).
BEST SOURCE: Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********).

*********: Much about this recording is unknown, including the title. Traditionally, it's been called Experiment (as we do here) or Sunshine. But that was before anyone learned what Sunshine really was (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: This 90-second bit of kinda-sorta improvisation has been bootlegged on many titles, but never has it been as clear as it is on the ********* disc. It’s basically a short little R&B-styled shuffle with what appears to be Syd playing guitar on top. It’s not long enough to determine what this really is, if anything. Most folks date this to the Piper recording sessions, but I believe that it is just as likely to be a Syd solo outtake—or not Syd/Floyd at all, although there is a distinct Syd feel to the guitar playing here.



1967-06-07
LOCATION: Studio 3, EMI Studios, Abbey Road, London, England.
TRACKS: Sunshine (excerpt from Matilda Mother).
BEST SOURCE: Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********).

*********: Sunshine is really the last section of Matilda Mother. Matilda Mother had been rerecorded on 7 June 1967. However, Norman Smith decided that the instrumental section in the middle was too long. During an editing session on 29 June, he literally cut the tape into three pieces. The first part was called "Matilda Mother", the second part (the part being deleted) was called "Wondering and Dreaming", and the third part was called "Sunshine" (based on a convenient lyrical reference at that point). Parts one and three were then spliced together to create the official version. On the stereo release, the "Sunshine" lyric in the left channel gets overpowered by the "For all the time spent in that room" lyric that predominates the right channel. To better hear and appreciate "Sunshine", I've made a mono version of just the left channel starting at the splice point (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: ********* cleared up any lingering guesswork about “Sunshine” by including this on Dawn Of The Piper. As a result, the track known on a number of bootlegs as “Sunshine’ can safely be re-titled “Experiment”.



1967-08-07 (plus subsequent overdubs)
LOCATION: Studio 3, EMI Studios, Abbey Road, London, England.
TRACKS: Scream Thy Last Scream (stereo mix)*, Scream Thy Last Scream (mono mix)**.
BEST SOURCE: Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********)*, What Syd Wants (*********)**.

SP: There are two different mixes of this legendary unreleased Syd Barrett track circulating among collectors. The extant stereo mix was created in 1974 by former Pink Floyd manager Peter Jenner with an eye toward including it on an aborted third Syd solo album. In 1987, former Syd Barrett producer Malcolm Jones (The Madcap Laughs) created a mono mix of the track, again with an eye toward possible release on what would be the actual third Syd solo album, Opel. The track was left off the released album, and remains commercially unavailable to this day.

There are a few notable differences between the two mixes. While both mixes contain the pre-song count-in, the mono mix includes a bit more pre-take ambiance compared to the stereo mix. Nick Mason ’s normal-speed lead vocal is mixed higher in the stereo mix, whereas Syd’s Chipmunk-esque co-lead vocal is at nearly the same level as Nick’s in the mono mix. In addition, the stereo mix features a complete ending while the mono mix fades a second or two early.

SM7609
09-25-2010, 02:29 PM
It's also worth noting that space restrictions meant that I edited out several existing entries--this is just a sample :)

neonknight
09-25-2010, 08:07 PM
I hope you continue your work. From this sample it certainly looks like it will be worthwhile and I am sure there are a number of people here who could help you iron out the various facts.

I was struck by your description of See Emily Play acetate number 2. For me it represents a nice, orginal way of describing why it stands out. It is dated 1967-05-23 btw.

SM7609
09-26-2010, 12:24 AM
Thank you NeonKnight, I truly appreciate it. And I will continue--you've really encouraged me! :D

psychedelicpiper
10-06-2010, 08:23 PM
Thank you so much for your work. Keep it coming! :D


1967-00-00 (date unknown)
LOCATION: Unknown, possibly EMI Studios, Abbey Road, London, England.
TRACKS: “Experiment” (exact title unknown).
BEST SOURCE: Dawn Of The Piper rev A (*********).

*********: Much about this recording is unknown, including the title. Traditionally, it's been called Experiment (as we do here) or Sunshine. But that was before anyone learned what Sunshine really was (liner notes, Dawn Of The Piper).

SP: This 90-second bit of kinda-sorta improvisation has been bootlegged on many titles, but never has it been as clear as it is on the ********* disc. It’s basically a short little R&B-styled shuffle with what appears to be Syd playing guitar on top. It’s not long enough to determine what this really is, if anything. Most folks date this to the Piper recording sessions, but I believe that it is just as likely to be a Syd solo outtake—or not Syd/Floyd at all, although there is a distinct Syd feel to the guitar playing here.

There's a new release with a better source for "Experiment" now. "Pink Floyd/Syd Barrett - I Want To Tell You a Story - Audio Upgrades & Rarities" from hallucalation.

http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21885

It's definitely Syd, since it was part of a tape Malcolm Jones had with other Syd material, and I'm sure that there's a source somewhere that points to it being Pink Floyd. Wikipedia mentions "Sound Techniques in September 1967".

Pottel
10-06-2010, 09:18 PM
is it progressing nicely?

movement
10-08-2010, 11:43 PM
In general, you might want to compare "Dawn of the Piper" to "The Syd Barrett Years"
http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showthread.php?p=120836
On almost a track-by-track basis, I believe TSBY is superior. However, there are a couple of tracks that TSBY lacks.

psychedelicpiper
10-09-2010, 04:43 AM
In general, you might want to compare "Dawn of the Piper" to "The Syd Barrett Years"
http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showthread.php?p=120836
On almost a track-by-track basis, I believe TSBY is superior. However, there are a couple of tracks that TSBY lacks.

"Dawn of the Piper (rev A)" has a better source of the 1966 "Interstellar Overdrive" that was used in the San Francisco film. I remember reading a post by one of the guys behind it saying the source was from an actual film print.

Also, even though the first couple seconds or so of "Lucy Leave" have a bit of audio damage, I don't like how "The Syd Barrett Years" cut it out, because, essentially, the opening chords of the song have been cut.

This is what I remember off the top of my head. I don't doubt "The Syd Barrett Years" might have strengths on some tracks over "Dawn of the Piper", but I'm too tired to delve in right now. It'd be amazing to have other people get in on this.

********* Records also did a separate release of the BBC material "BBC Archives 1967-1969 (Rev B)", and I love how well they edited the "Green Onions" instrumental to exclude the talking parts but still get the music in.

SM7609
10-09-2010, 02:21 PM
Thanks guys! Sorry I haven't checked the thread in a bit. I'm humbled by the generosity of the response, as they say :-)

Things are progressing VERY well...I want to show you more of the stuff, but I'm limited in the amount of text I can post here. This may turn into a book! (I've written several already actually, about Zappa and Woodstock).

I'll check out TSBY in the meanwhile...I fully admit, I've had a ********* bias in reviewing this stuff ;-)

movement
10-09-2010, 04:42 PM
********* Records also did a separate release of the BBC material "BBC Archives 1967-1969 (Rev B)", and I love how well they edited the "Green Onions" instrumental to exclude the talking parts but still get the music in.

Yeah, I think the BBC Archives Rev B is so good that the purpose of Dawn of the Piper might have to be revisited to be all available Pink Floyd with Syd minus official releases and BBC sessions. Dawn and Dusk of the Piper?

SM7609
10-09-2010, 11:23 PM
I gotta give it to TSBY, especially on the BBC material. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I love those Peel/Drummond intros and outros. ;)

psychedelicpiper
11-04-2010, 12:21 PM
Um ... hello anyone? This thread was going great, and I'd really like to see it keep going as to listing the best sources for unreleased tracks.

Personally, I want to make myself some CD's with the best unreleased sources for Syd Barrett's Pink Floyd material.