Roger accused to be an Anti-Semitist

[creamcheese]

Did you read this one?
This is kind of funny. Especially the conclusion of Roger's Letter.
Read carefully.

Roger Waters fights back against claims of anti-Semitism (http://www.brain-damage.co.uk/latest/roger-waters-fights-back-against-claims-of-anti-semitism.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+brain-damage-news+%28Pink+Floyd+News+-+Brain-Damage.co.uk%29)

[AnyColourYouLike]

ridiculous. That segment of the show contains many symbols Christian & Jewish alike.

[moc622]

this is the risk you run when you are being provocative. i can't believe that he is surprised that something like this would happen (whether it is right or wrong).

[oldpink]

While I hesitate to call Roger an anti-Semite, I do think he is (as nearly all those who see things in his political corner) on the wrong side of the Israel situation.
Anyone ever hear of the Grand Mufti of Palestine?
He was actively working to see that as many Jews as possible were sent to Hitler's ovens before there was even an Israel at all.
I have to ask how is it that a nation smaller than the U.S.'s smallest state of Rhode Island must not be allowed to exist in a land dominated by other religions?
Roger Waters may make some good music and even better lyrics, but Roger can afford to be cavalier about the very real situation of religious fanatics who strap TNT to mentally handicapped, youthfully naive, or brainwashed people - who are then sent into pizza parlors and other public areas of Jerusalem to detonate themselves and as many of the hated Israelis with them as possible.
If Roger demands that Israel take down the wall that separates the fanatics from the Israelis, then how come he doesn't prove his conviction by moving into those areas most likely to have those fanatics target for self-detonation?
Oh, but wait, Roger would rather not do that, content to instead watch the nearly daily reports of other people dying at the hands of said fanatics.
Yeah, I'm one of those evil Republicans.
Bring on the hate.
:rolleyes:
/off soapbox

[emmapeelfan]

Though I'm sure Roger is being genuinely sincere, this again proves that musicians should never get involved in religion and politics because you're ALWAYS gonna upset and offend some group or other. That is a guarantee.

I do like Roger's response and taking the time to read their writings to hurl a quote back at them to defend himself.

But ultimately whether it's John Lennon, Bono, Bob Geldof or Roger Waters, at the end of the day they are musicians, writers and performers. Nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, but I would had thought Roger would know better than most that people are sick to the teeth with politics and when they go to a live show, they want to "escape" from such things.

[BarneyMcGrew]

I don't think he's anti semite or on the wrong side of the argument. The super powers, mainly the USA are responsible for the Palestinian situation just as the UK is responsible for the Pakistan situation.

I agree, most nations of the middle east and the Jews have been in some sort of conflict since their inception but setting up countries exclusively for people of the same religious faith is asking for trouble and just shows our hormones are far more potent than the intellect in our craniums.

[oldpink]

I don't think he's anti semite or on the wrong side of the argument. The super powers, mainly the USA are responsible for the Palestinian situation just as the UK is responsible for the Pakistan situation.

I agree, most nations of the middle east and the Jews have been in some sort of conflict since their inception but setting up countries exclusively for people of the same religious faith is asking for trouble and just shows our hormones are far more potent than the intellect in our craniums.

For what it's worth, Israel has large numbers of Muslims, Christians and various other faiths allowed to freely practice their religions, and many of them also serve in political office.
They choose to be citizens instead of nuts.
Now, just try and openly worship as a Christian or (worse) a Jew in Saudi Arabia, and see just how long you are even allowed to LIVE.
Not really trying to turn this into an us/them argument, but have some perspective here.

[BarneyMcGrew]

This thread is an excellent example of why Rog has done what he's done, its generating discussion but should it have any place in music? I dunno, it feels like what I'm writing now belongs somewhere other than here but then Pink Floyd were never just a rock band. Anyway to continue the debate.

I don't know about Islam but to call yourself a Christian means you have a responsibilty to persuade non-Christians to convert.

I've been bothered on numerous occasions by Christians trying to persuade me, they even come knocking on my door. No Muslim has ever done that so I can see why such a faith which also celebrates alcohol would be considered a threat to any government.

I don't accept in creating a new country (1948) in the heart of the middle east the Jews couldn't see the reaction it would provoke. But they went ahead feeling secure enough in their own strength as a minority to dominate the majority.

Regarding Palestine, how might the English react if the Welsh backed by the USA tried to take the Forest of Dean using ancient history as justification?

We are humans not angels and government is as close to the devil as you can get.

[oldpink]

There's a huge difference between persuasion (however annoyed you may be) by knocking at your door and flying planes into skyscrapers.
hth

[BarneyMcGrew]

Yeah, but I don't think 9/11 was designed to convert people to Islam, maybe only if you want the really evil ones. I thought it was an attack against western capitalists. Roger's one of those.

[Olly37]

I don't think Roger Waters will give a toss what anyone thinks of him. He has his opinion and thats all that matters to him.

The bit I don't like is his view is put into the musical domain, whereas personally I feel, music is music, religion/politics/blah should stay out of it and vice versa.

Quotes of PF were more than a band is rubbish. I can't see Nick or Rick giving a thought to anything other than the band, both being the quieter members of the band. David allies himself with his various charities but doesn't put them in your face. Only Roger has opinions and tells them as he sees fit.

Personally I like to go to a show and listen to the music, I'm not interested in the baggage that comes with it.

If politics/religion comes into it, I choose to ignore it as it may not reflect my own opinion anyway. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, whether they chose to share it is irrelevant especially in a musical domain.

Just my opinion... (ironically)

Peace,
Olly.

[emmapeelfan]

The bit I don't like is his view is put into the musical domain, whereas personally I feel, music is music, religion/politics/blah should stay out of it and vice versa.

...Personally I like to go to a show and listen to the music, I'm not interested in the baggage that comes with it.

If politics/religion comes into it, I choose to ignore it as it may not reflect my own opinion anyway. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, whether they chose to share it is irrelevant especially in a musical domain.


Right on! :worthy:

[radiowaves]

HaHaHaHa...This is a laugh. Mr. Foxman seems to be playing from his cuff. Is he himself inciting hatred towards Roger? Are there any Jewish kids in his show? (Sure there is). Roger is a staunch supporter of human rights. So where is the Pope shouting when Roger uses the Crucifix? Is Mr. Foxman so far up his Arsehole that he does not realise that their are more important things going on in this world besides his Anti-Christian message. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Bono can do it. Neil Young can do it. Pearl Jam can do it. But the minute Roger does it, up jumps Mr. Foxman on his wagon and sounds off. Does he forget that Roger played in Neve Shalom (Peace Village) Israel in 2006 in front of 50,000 fans, in a neutral zone, in the middle of nowhere, and every one of those fans loved the show. And that he held a show between the old East and West Germany AGAINST the building of Walls (not to mention the fact that Mr. Foxman's own country flagrantly shoved international law aside and built a wall themselves to keep in the innocent palestinian people)

Shame on you, Mr. Foxman. For highlighting the fact that YOU think the use of your religious symbol is a crime. If you really cared for your people, you would mourne silently for the millions that lost their lives in WW2. Those poor souls would be ashamed for you to be called one of their own kin. Roger Waters is a Performing Artist, that has played in front of millions of happy fans. no matter of race, creed, colour. Who the Fuck are you, Mr. Foxman? I have never heard of you until now.

In the words of Roger....

You don't have to be a Jew
To disapprove my murder
Tears burn my eyes
Moslem or Christian Mullah or Pope
Preachers or poet who was it wrote
Give any one species too much rope
And they'll fuck it up


Rant over

[oldpink]

FWIW, I am no fan of Abraham Foxman, as he is rather overeager to throw the anti-Semite card, pretty much as the self-styled "civil rights leaders" Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton over here gleefully to throw the race card.
He has on more than one occasion unfairly branded as anti-Semites those whom a reasonable person could see are anything but that.
I just think it is ridiculous for someone who lives in the comfort of a mansion in Great Britain or America, with all the attendant comforts of civilization and (more importantly) civilized people, lecturing those whose very lives are in extreme peril at the hands of those who believe they will be forever rewarded in the hereafter for killing themselves and as many who practice other religions as possible.
Whichever side anyone may be on the whole Israeli debacle, it should be painfully obvious that having to live constantly in fear of religious fanatics incited to suicidally commit mass murder is something that almost none of us has to deal with, nor can we little imagine how it must be.
In some ways, it's even worse than the air raids in Great Britain in WWII, since at least the British fully recognized their enemy and took cover, instead of having the enemy walking among them, ready to randomly wipe out scores of them at a time.