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Thread: Montreux November 1970

  1. #21
    ddyte Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy_672 View Post
    A complilation is a very different beast to a matrix,as each complete track comes only from 1 source & usualy the source for each track is known.If I don't want a compilation I can simply strip it back to it sources
    Ok, then we were at cross purposes. What I put up is a compilation, not a matrix. And labelled as such.

  2. #22
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    I have smoking blues somewhere. To divert away from the recordings for a second, I don't like Gilmour's guitar sound on this recording. He sounds like he is hitting the strings very hard, producing a very agressive and 'toppy' sound.

  3. #23
    ddyte Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orgone Accumulator View Post
    I have smoking blues somewhere. To divert away from the recordings for a second, I don't like Gilmour's guitar sound on this recording. He sounds like he is hitting the strings very hard, producing a very agressive and 'toppy' sound.
    Try the Nov 22 recordings. To my ear, the guitar is less harsh in the mix, even as the playing by the band generally is more aggressive and upbeat.

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    Just to jump in and clarify, we would do well to clarify our terms here, for describing three categories of recordings from multiple sources.

    1) A matrix is when someone uses multiple sources to REMIX the audio in some way to enhance the sound, not just to fill in gaps from one recorder by using another. By this, I am talking about something on the order of using two recordings of the same gig to create a stereo recording from two mono sources.
    A good example of this would be "We Meet Again," which has two 5.1 (one DVD-A and one DTS) and one stereo version. WMA was constructed by carefully using the audience source for the 16NOV74 gig together with the pre-FM soundboard to either fill out the two rear channels (5.1 versions - SBD front channels and AUD rears) or mixed together into the stereo channels for the stereo CD version.

    2) I would call a patchwork multiple source compilation for a specific gig involves using the best source for the bulk, then using another recorder of the same performance to insert missing material, sometimes in the middle of cut songs.
    A good example of this would be Walter Romanus's and Heywood's excellent "In Rainbow Light," which uses a second recorder to splice in the gaps missing from "Time," "Us and Them," and "Eclipse" found in the famous "Best of Tour '72" recording, then using that second recorder to include the entire second set.

    3) A separated compilation would simply be using two sources of a given gig to make up a ROIO of each recording kept together, usually with the second recording on another disk.
    Two examples of this would include the aforementioned "The Good...The Bad" and R&D's "Creatures of the Deep."

    Sorry if I come off as pedantic, but I think it really is important to use better terms, as I refuse to call "The Good...The Bad" a matrix at all, and I really have a tough time understanding why even a purist would complain about a separated compilation ROIO constructed from two sources, with each source kept together, as was done on "Creatures of the Deep." After all, you get the best of both worlds on that one, as you can simply leave off whichever source you do not want if you are that picky. Also, I have to commend Heywood/Walter for splicing together the patchwork "In Rainbow Light," since the cuts on BOT72 are so vexing on the original that their work really is satisfying. And, as far as WMA, I think it is a novelty, and a not half bad effort at approximating what EMI and Floyd would have done if they wanted to make a 5.1 of that gig.

    Again, three categories, with my own terms, but others may have better nomenclature: matrix, patchwork compilation (maybe "splice" would be a better word), separated compilation

    Just my $0.02 (the coming inflationary tsunami will probably make that $0.001 soon)

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    That was very well described

  6. #26
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    I will try to keep this thrad updated.

    Two patchworks (or call' em whatever you like, I speak in spansih so no see really the issue)

    http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15126

    http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15211


    ***************
    In The Bad:
    at the beginning, playing at max volume, you hear Roger counting in "2, 3 , 4".

    But in the Embryo of Smoking Blues, supposedly of the same date (22 November) the count in "is not there"...just wondering....
    the Taper of The Bad, was so near of the stage to capture something that the "EMI" ingeneers couldn't ?
    Nick Mason
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    The sound quality is usually dreadful ( ), but I've got one with hundreds of things on. Not quite sure where they've got it from. For people like us who've done a lot over the years it's not a major issue ( )



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    Quote Originally Posted by oldpink View Post

    Again, three categories, with my own terms, but others may have better nomenclature: matrix, patchwork compilation (maybe "splice" would be a better word), separated compilation

    Just my $0.02 (the coming inflationary tsunami will probably make that $0.001 soon)
    I use stock terms like Mix, Matrix, Compilation and Compendium. I don't know if I use them right but here's how I list them:

    Compilations should be roios that just combine random songs like it was a "greatest hits" package. Example: "Pink Days and Fat Old Suns" which remains my favorite random collection.

    Compendium is more definite in what it is, namely all recordings for a given date. Example: "Raving Lunatics" which is everything you need to hear from Nov 16, 1974. Truthfully, I still want the second audience recording. I've almost been a member of this site for a year now and this one still hasn't shown up. Who do I have to bribe in order to get it?

    My Mix definition combines both total and splice/patch Mixes. I call anything a Mix that introduces a second recording into the primary recording that requires a mixing board set up and/or precision care and patience. Splice Mix example: Osaka 8-3-1972. Splice, patch and total would describe how much of the second recording was used in and over the first.

    My Matrix definition involves multisource realizations of complete shows where whole songs/sets are taken from more than one recordings. Example: Trentham Gardens Nov 19, 1974. These are really easy for anybody to put together; I've been doing them myself for years.


    ***************
    In The Bad:
    at the beginning, playing at max volume, you hear Roger counting in "2, 3 , 4".

    But in the Embryo of Smoking Blues, supposedly of the same date (22 November) the count in "is not there"...just wondering....
    the Taper of The Bad, was so near of the stage to capture something that the "EMI" ingeneers couldn't ?
    I can hear them at 12-14 seconds on the "Night/Day" speed corrected version. I think the problem is that Waters doesn't count into the mic so they don't get picked up that well.
    Last edited by Syborg; 2009-03-17 at 03:21 AM.

  8. #28
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    http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showth...t=15211&page=2

    "the sneeze" incident

    yes, they sound different...but how it came to appera ina SBD???

    That could means that is a multitrack recording (as I said, LZ Southampton 1973).

    MAYBE: the "AUD" tape is a not "final" mixdown as are (?) Smoking Blues tracks, it's maybe one/s of the multitracks, and that explains the sneeze sounds closer and clear.

    Anyway, the "AUD" is a nth generation of the professional recording, it seems not to be an AUD at all...it's clear for me as mud

    http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showth...t=10285&page=7
    Last edited by goa; 2009-03-17 at 01:10 PM.
    Nick Mason
    I do have some bootlegs of our stuff to remind me how much I hate them. ( )

    Roger Waters
    Q: How do you feel about fans exchanging bootlegs?
    A: I think it sounds like a healthy ( ) hobby.

    Dave Gilmour
    The sound quality is usually dreadful ( ), but I've got one with hundreds of things on. Not quite sure where they've got it from. For people like us who've done a lot over the years it's not a major issue ( )



    Pink Floyd fans: Express Your Support for Chile's Students here
    http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26455

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Chilean_protests
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu4tPw5ND7M
    http://www.teachersolidarity.com/blo...for-education/
    Join us in the fight against neoliberal policies in education around the world!

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by goa View Post
    http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showth...t=15211&page=2

    "the sneeze" incident

    Anyway, the "AUD" is a nth generation of the professional recording, it seems not to be an AUD at all...it's clear for me as mud

    http://www.yeeshkul.com/forum/showth...t=10285&page=7
    Very well, I've give some more impressions but keep in mind that this is just as a listener.

    "It seems not to be an audience at all." That's a good because it's better if we start with the known Soundboard recording before we decide what the other recording is. One problem is that it's not a very good soundboard as it has no stereo definition combined with a left channel bias. I usually relate such bias to either generational copies or a sign that it's an audience tape as even the 1970 Paris Theater BBC show is centered if mono. If it was taped at the "soundboard", would it be that off center?

    Regardless of that, next spot to check at Cymbaline footstep sequence from "Night/Day" at 8:39 and its corrosponding moment from 9:29 on "10 Jewels" Cymbaline. Audience chatter and laughter is on the "10 Jewels" recording while the Soundboard only has the barely heard laughter.

    It's my opinion that the audience recording was in fact recorded from the audience but I don't know about the Soundboard. You tell me because it's pretty weak as soundboards go.
    Last edited by Syborg; 2009-03-17 at 02:52 PM.

  10. #30
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    a good explanation could be that if the show was recorded as multitrack, then we could understand those little differences... perhaps the "SBD" source is only a different "post-production" mix of the same multitrack recording, while the "AUD" could be the mix recorded in realtime straight off the soundboard during the concert...

    ...but the point is that they have too similar behaviour to be 2 completely different sources... :o

    but IMO the strange thing is the fact that the sneeze is present also on the "SBD" source... and if we assume that mix was produced to cut the acetates (or a tape for a broadcast) why they didn't completely edit out the sneeze?
    ...perhaps it came from a mic that couldn't be closed, as it was for example from one mic placed on the Nick's drums or a vocal's mic? :confused:
    (i'm assuming that the sneezeing person was one of the floyds... why not?)

    bye
    Last edited by vince666; 2009-03-17 at 03:22 PM.

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