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Thread: Official Wembley 74 DSOTM Sources

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    Default Official Wembley 74 DSOTM Sources

    I've posted a few things on exactly what we have on the new Wembley version of DSOTM, but they may have got a bit lost so thought I'd start a new thread. Surely this is interesting for a few of us?

    Firstly to repeat (sorry) that the first half of the show is basically from the familiar 16th November show, while the second half (Money onwards) is from the 15th.

    The main mystery for me surrounds the piano intro to 'Great Gig' which is not obviously from either 15th or 16th. The intro slide guitar and bass seem to be from the 16th (as is the rest of the track) - but the piano doesn't match the 16th. How or why they grafted on a different piano I don't know, presumably because the piano was considered to be poorly recorded? As to where the new piano bits come from, who knows... it may have been somehow pieced together from existing bits or just dropped in from a different (much later) show.

    some other points I've noticed are -

    'Speak to me / Breathe' - the transition between them has been cut / crossfaded to make it sound smoother

    'Time' intro: the first guitar notes have been beefed up to sound like the LP version (live versions never tried to sound like this, even going back to the early ones), also Nick's roto tom solo has had a ton of echo added, again to sound like the LP, and a few duff hits edited out

    also on 'Time' Rick's line "there is time to kill...' has been dropped in from the 15th to replace a bit of feedback on the 16th version - this has been done a bit clumsily, sorry but think I could have done it better!

    in 'Any Colour You Like' the Leslie speaker effect on the guitar solo sounds suspiciously heavy, though I guess you'd have to hear the unprocessed 15th tape to know...

    This isn't meant to carp at the release in any way, I think it sounds great.

    Any thoughts / additions?

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    I missed the post where someone talked about multitrack only existing for the 15th. Is this correct? Is the 16th material really just mastered from the stereo BBC mix? Can someone post the source of this info again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by penguinzzz View Post
    The main mystery for me surrounds the piano intro to 'Great Gig' which is not obviously from either 15th or 16th. The intro slide guitar and bass seem to be from the 16th (as is the rest of the track) - but the piano doesn't match the 16th. How or why they grafted on a different piano I don't know, presumably because the piano was considered to be poorly recorded? As to where the new piano bits come from, who knows... it may have been somehow pieced together from existing bits or just dropped in from a different (much later) show.
    Once and for all:

    • Two sources have been used by the band: November 15th and November 16th 1974.
    • The 16th was sourced from the BBC stereo master tapes. The multitracks has not been located, and is presumly lost for the moment. Stereo: 2 tracks. It's the original mix done by the BBC engineers. It was incomplete: some quad sound effects were missing, and the osund was very dry. It had been corrected in 2011.
    • The 15th was sourced from the original multitracks. It wasn't used in 1974 because he's incomplete too (the kick drum wasn't even recorded, it had been patched with a sample all the way through in 2011 via digital editing). It had not been even mixed in 1974.
    • The release does not contain any "frankenstein" job (one instrument from one night, another from the other night). It's just not possible because one of the source is in stereo. Any editing was made as a whole: everything from 16th or everything from 15th.
    • From what we've heard, roughly, the first half is from the 16th, and the second half is from 15th.
    • It's not impossible that some parts of the 16th were filtered carefully to enhance the sound a little (ex: attenuate some feedback). But with a stereo tape, there's not much you can do. You can't just lower the volume of an instrument without affecting greatly the tonal balance or the harmonics of something else.
    • No overdubs were made for the concerts. Absolutly none.
    • The intro of "The Great Gig In The Sky" is the only part where we still haven't found on bootlegs where it may come from. We shall all remind ourselves that sometimes audience tapes are edited too with another night if a small section is missing. We shall ask Ron and MOB, they released the audience tape of the 15th.
    • The soundchecks of the 15th or the 16th may have been recorded partially too, but that's only a theory based on nothing but pure speculation. If indeed TGGITS comes from another moment, it could very well be this.



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    This may be a dumb question. But, if they only had the stereo mix from 11/16 then how did they manage to make David Gilmour's guitar on the intro of Time stand out so much on the new release? On all the other versions of Wembley 11/16 that I have heard, his guitar is barely audible. Without the multi-tracks, how is this possible? :confused: Also, if they can indeed work that kind of magic with a stereo mix, then they have no reason not to release a live '77 concert from one of those alleged soundboard tapes they have lurking in their vaults.
    Last edited by jchrist1946; 10-17-2011 at 02:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jchrist1946 View Post
    This may be a dumb question. But, if they only had the stereo mix from 11/16 then how did they manage to make David Gilmour's guitar on the intro of Time stand out so much on the new release? On all the other versions of Wembley 11/16 that I have heard, his guitar is barely audible. Without the multi-tracks, how is this possible? :confused: Also, if they can indeed work that kind of magic with a stereo mix, then they have no reason not to release a live '77 concert from one of those alleged soundboard tapes they have lurking in their vaults.
    DYnamic EQ maybe?

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    I think I remember reading somewhere that James and Andy are both fond of the Animals album. Maybe they can convince Mr. Gilmour to release it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckoes View Post
    Once and for all:

    • The intro of "The Great Gig In The Sky" is the only part where we still haven't found on bootlegs where it may come from. We shall all remind ourselves that sometimes audience tapes are edited too with another night if a small section is missing. We shall ask Ron and MOB, they released the audience tape of the 15th.
    Have folks checked the 17th too, just in case? And 1973-03-17 as well? I'm pretty sure 1974-11-14 exists but isn't circulating, so that's no help.

    BTW given that there are multiple audience sources for the 15th and 16th, patches shouldn't be an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ******* View Post
    I think that one of the biggest hurdles in regards to releasing the live Animals recordings as an "Experience" version is that Gilmour doesn't seem to be too fond of that album. Hopefully Andy Jackson (and Guthrie) will see some potential in whatever exists.
    I've heard this as well. Proof he's gone completely insane? Its the best prog guitar work he's ever produced. If he really thinks its worth spending time re-doing the drums on AMLOR above working on a live In The Flesh release then surely all the fish in his stream of consciouncness have been poisoned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jchrist1946 View Post
    This may be a dumb question. But, if they only had the stereo mix from 11/16 then how did they manage to make David Gilmour's guitar on the intro of Time stand out so much on the new release?
    As Eckoes suggested, possibly dynamic EQ. There is also Spectral Editing and Filtering which has gotten more sophisticated in recent years. With that, one can see a dynamic 3D view of the wav form and one can highlight, extract or enhance information on it's frequency level. For instance, a few months ago I used a Spectral editor on the organ solo on "Arnold Layne" as an experiment. One can actually see the organ frequencies in the 3D form, so I painted those out. Using inverting trickery, I then matched the two files up, and voila... the organ part was isolated in one channel, and everything else was in the other giving an interesting genuine stereo separation. It must be said though it is painstaking tedious work though. I do wonder if Guthrie and co have used Spectral trickery on some of these things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckoes View Post
    ..... [*]The intro of "The Great Gig In The Sky" is the only part where we still haven't found on bootlegs where it may come from. We shall all remind ourselves that sometimes audience tapes are edited too with another night if a small section is missing......
    It could come from anywhere, maybe even the nineties. It might even have been played in the studio by someone else and added specifically for this release.

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