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Thread: Official Wembley 74 DSOTM Sources

  1. #11
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    that's interesting as the 'Time' intro almost seems to be semi - morphed with what sounds like the album version, both guitar and rototoms. Its like the live tape has been re-shaped into the form of the lp version. No tape of any known live version sounds like that.

    AS for the GGITS piano intro, it is undoubtedly a different piano performance playing alongside the guitar & bass from the 16th. Again, what you describe seems to be the way it might have been done.



    Quote Originally Posted by emmapeelfan View Post
    As Eckoes suggested, possibly dynamic EQ. There is also Spectral Editing and Filtering which has gotten more sophisticated in recent years. With that, one can see a dynamic 3D view of the wav form and one can highlight, extract or enhance information on it's frequency level. For instance, a few months ago I used a Spectral editor on the organ solo on "Arnold Layne" as an experiment. One can actually see the organ frequencies in the 3D form, so I painted those out. Using inverting trickery, I then matched the two files up, and voila... the organ part was isolated in one channel, and everything else was in the other giving an interesting genuine stereo separation. It must be said though it is painstaking tedious work though. I do wonder if Guthrie and co have used Spectral trickery on some of these things.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckoes View Post
    Once and for all:

    • Two sources have been used by the band: November 15th and November 16th 1974.

    • No overdubs were made for the concerts. Absolutly none.


    With all due respect, I don't think "but the band said X" is a definitive argument when our ears are telling us something else is going on. Depending on our age, we have been listening to these shows for 20 or 30 years, which gives us some credibility when asking questions about this release.

    I confess a little weariness whenever the answer is "no, X did not happen/is impossible, because the band said so". It's as if someone equates reading an interview with having actually been in the studio supervising the whole thing.

    Weren't there insistences of no overdubs on DSOT when it first came out, with a later admission of "oh yeah we added acoustic guitar and re-recorded some vocals?"

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    Where did David Gilmour's vocal tracks of Brain Damage come from?
    I guess 1974 show is only sing Roger's vocal part. But new Wembley version is vocal duet.
    It is mystery vocal tracks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ******* View Post
    Nick's kick drum was sampled and overdubbed for the entire performance.
    This is a technical repair rather than replacing/changing a part. What I mean is, the replacement kick hits were (to the best of their ability) intended to exactly match the original performance. Not to alter it. Just pointing out the difference between doing that vs. replacing a vocal to alter or fix a performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPhibes View Post
    With all due respect, I don't think "but the band said X" is a definitive argument when our ears are telling us something else is going on. Depending on our age, we have been listening to these shows for 20 or 30 years, which gives us some credibility when asking questions about this release.

    I confess a little weariness whenever the answer is "no, X did not happen/is impossible, because the band said so". It's as if someone equates reading an interview with having actually been in the studio supervising the whole thing.
    You know, I agree with you. We all agree that there's a possibility that some other vintage sources may have been used, but so far nothing conclusive. But if you don't even trust what the band says, being a fan is gonna be comlicated. I give them the benefits of doubt.

    My list was just a summary of what we know for sure about the two dates from Wembley. After many listenning and comparaison, we all came to the same conslusion that it was roughly and half/half. The only point were there is a legitimate question is for TGGITS intro, we don't know if it's truly from another night or what. Maybe the band heard both nights, and gave some instruction to Guthrie to "salvage it", and left only to return to listen to the final product, wich they approved. The only one who could answer with absolute certainity is Guthrie.

  6. #16
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    Maybe I could be a little rude commenting all this I'm reading, but .. who cares of which source was used of it's dubbed... it sounds great and "natural".. period

    I mean, if the overall sound "sounds" exactly like the period it was performed live and, like jimfisheye said previously, some retouching and fixing was done (like the kick drums, keyboards of GGITS, etc) to achieve that, is that what really counts!!

    If the gig was only cleaned up and left as it was recorded, maybe this thread would contain the majority complaining "hoo, nice, but why they didn't do something to make it better??? there is an error here, Rick made a mistake there.. they could use another source to fix that"...

    I apologize in advance if someone could feel offended by my comment, that's only my humble opinion, but Guthrie made an outstanding live remaster.. and that's enought for me and for my ears, finding all the sources or not.. it doesn't change this masterpiece James realized

    PS:
    .. and maybe I'm too old and have not so many free time to find all the sources for this gig and I'm only jealous you have it... ah ah ah!!
    Last edited by Gagliem; 10-18-2011 at 09:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckoes View Post
    .......Maybe the band heard both nights, and gave some instruction to Guthrie to "salvage it", and left only to return to listen to the final product, wich they approved. The only one who could answer with absolute certainity is Guthrie.
    i wonder how much input they really had.

    I think Roger was busy touring, Gilmour busy gilmouring, Mason was just impressd with everything he heard....

    So the band members probably don't know what came from where

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPhibes View Post
    Weren't there insistences of no overdubs on DSOT when it first came out, with a later admission of "oh yeah we added acoustic guitar and re-recorded some vocals?"
    When I spoke with Buford Jones over lunch, he told me there were only two overdubs, both on Comfortably Numb. So minor, they could easily be forgotten about. Part of Tim Renwick's acoustic guitar (Buford almost got to play it, as Tim was unavailable while the mixing session was occurring, and apparently Dave didn't want to do it ) and then I want to say Sam Brown actually sang backup on that track. I don't recall who it was that she replaced.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckoes View Post
    You know, I agree with you. We all agree that there's a possibility that some other vintage sources may have been used, but so far nothing conclusive. But if you don't even trust what the band says, being a fan is gonna be comlicated. I give them the benefits of doubt.
    I thank you for treating my weariness with dignity and respect. This could have easily escalated into some kind of argument.

    It's not that I don't trust the band, or even that I think someone is deliberately being dishonest. I just think there might be some details that are not part of the narrative. Someone asks "What sources did you use to make this recording?" and the response (multitracks from the 15th plus the stereo from the 16th, plus a patched in kick drum) may be reasonable for a one or two sentence answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by jchrist1946 View Post
    When I spoke with Buford Jones over lunch, he told me there were only two overdubs, both on Comfortably Numb. So minor, they could easily be forgotten about.
    This is exactly the kind of thing I'm wondering about - perhaps a third source was used for a small part here or there. No one was trying to deceive anyone, but this extra source used for a brief section has been obscured by discussions of the main sources.
    Last edited by DrPhibes; 10-19-2011 at 02:49 AM. Reason: one post better than two.

  10. #20
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    Sorry to reopen an old thread but... Now that the boxset has been released, we have Echoes from Wembley. Previous speculations might have been right.

    The opening note on Echoes has been changed by something else, and the sax solo is different sometimes. Overall it seems to be from the 16th, but some parts of 15th could have been used too.

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