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Thread: Pink floyd the early years 1965-1972

  1. #2081
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    Well, all of this HD funny business is a total head-scratcher to me... all I can say is, I really feel for you on this one, Jim.
    Honestly, why would they even bother to release the Crea/tion set if this was their plan all along?
    COME AND SEE THE PRETTY LIGHTS

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    While mastering for different formats (CD, MP3, digital devices, etc.) may be commonplace these days this is NOT what was done for the audio for TEY. Andy remastered all the audio as you previously described -

    Quote Originally Posted by jimfisheye View Post
    Audio is produced to the highest standards possible with professional equipment first.

    Now depending on what the end goal is, you might listen to your work on small speakers or a laptop to make sure you aren't producing something that requires an audiophile reference system to even listen to.

    The output of the modern digital audio workstation (used for mixing and mastering) is HD. 24 bit 96k (sometimes people work at 192k). So an HD master is pretty much straight from the mastering desk to the consumer. (This is the short version. Yes, there is more to talk about there.)
    In the case of the audio for TEY, the HD master straight from the mastering desk was only down-sampled for the various formats and was not EQed/remastered for the various formats. They're all the same. So the only things to legitimately complain about are Andy's remastering choices (too bright?) and that some files are still being withheld at their mastered HD resolution (48/24 and 96/24).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe59 View Post
    While mastering for different formats (CD, MP3, digital devices, etc.) may be commonplace these days this is NOT what was done for the audio for TEY. Andy remastered all the audio as you previously described -



    In the case of the audio for TEY, the HD master straight from the mastering desk was only down-sampled for the various formats and was not EQed/remastered for the various formats. They're all the same. So the only things to legitimately complain about are Andy's remastering choices (too bright?) and that some files are still being withheld at their mastered HD resolution (48/24 and 96/24).
    If I may chime in here, now that I've made a comparison of a couple of the 44.1/24 tracks from an unattributed source (grey area maybe, but I have a legitimately purchased box set and claim fair use for comparison purposes). Yes, the 44.1/24 tracks I looked at are almost identical to the CD rip from my CDs (barring only CD sector offsets, that for one track (the Picnic version of Embryo) I manually aligned in Audition in order to check, and perhaps some dithering). Furthermore, the waveforms I looked at appeared to have a decent dynamic range and no evidence of the brickwalling (which is the only interpretation I can give to JFE's strange usage of the term "hyping") that I have seen in so many CDs from the loudness wars years.

    Further to my test of Embryo. I aligned the two sources, and mix-pasted a an inverted copy of one file into the other. The result is what I am assuming is dithering noise. I have amplified that and all I can hear is that nice comforting white noise hiss. I hear no residual signal at all. I conclude that there is no effective difference between the two files, and in this case no benefit whatsoever from a supposed 24-bit version. So on that basis, it does appear that selling these as "hi-res" is a bit of a con.

    But what would I know? I am just a philistine who doesn't believe in the audio hi-res mythos for regular listening. (For audio processing / editing, sure, but for listening, no.) And while I do respect the restoration work Jim has done, I personally don't think the Early Years CDs sound that bad given the source material, though I've so far not listened to all of them on my Sennheisers.

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    Anyone who wants to seek out 24 bits.. it's already out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hallucalation View Post
    Anyone who wants to seek out 24 bits.. it's already out there.
    Ahem, and I didn't bother seeking out any more after my first comparisons.

  6. #2086
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagu View Post
    Ahem, and I didn't bother seeking out any more after my first comparisons.
    Same here, no additional value for me at all. I'm disappointed but it is what it is.

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    I went through these.

    The 24 bit 44.1k editions being offered on HDTracks are in fact the exact copies of these tracks that were prepared for the CD editions with the extra peak limiting and boosting, high end eq bump, and added noise reduction. Just the already prepared files but before the reduction to 16 bit.

    There is absolutely no content left in these versions of the mastering that was lost in the 16 bit reduction but is still preserved in these 24 bit copies. The "mastering for portable device listening" (eg. iThings, phones) work eclipses anything to do with SD vs. HD formats.

    Perhaps the intention was something else? That these versions are being offered in 24 bit suggests they might be the unmolested master edition like the Creation sampler. They are in fact the very same budget edition as the CD's. You can even null the 24 bit files against the 16 bit files and hear silence! (You'll see a little wiggle on the meter down at -70db.)

    If these were never meant to be a more deluxe HD version and instead an alternate budget edition, well there you go. These are NOT the HD edition like the Creation sampler tracks.


    In defense of these "mastered for portable devices" editions (as I'm calling them), Pink Floyd have MUCH higher standards than most others out there! Really truly. Some of the tracks were not altered very much at all from the masters. Some sound like absolutely no difference. But a few as discussed before have added noise reduction, brighter eq, and are louder. Just be aware that these 24/44.1 copies have the exact same processing done (whatever you think of that).

    Listen to The Violent Sequence for a more obvious example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roscoe59 View Post
    While mastering for different formats (CD, MP3, digital devices, etc.) may be commonplace these days this is NOT what was done for the audio for TEY. Andy remastered all the audio as you previously described -



    In the case of the audio for TEY, the HD master straight from the mastering desk was only down-sampled for the various formats and was not EQed/remastered for the various formats. They're all the same. So the only things to legitimately complain about are Andy's remastering choices (too bright?) and that some files are still being withheld at their mastered HD resolution (48/24 and 96/24).
    If this is true, then I have altered bootleg copies of all the CD's and the 24/44.1 files I downloaded have come from the same altered bootleg copies as the files null to silence with each other. (ie. You don't have to believe my "lying ears". The files when subtracted from each other reveal they come from the identical digital source.) The Creation sampler tracks come from upstream of these CD files. Again, to be fair, some of them also sound identical and the work is much classier than usual in the industry. But some of them are a bit stepped on as I described.


    Let me be VERY clear that this set sounds head and shoulders above a lot of what gets released in the wild! (With the exception of the 3 remixes that were blinded with high end eq!) I do apologize for jumping in the deep end and not making that point clear enough right up front!
    Just that if you were looking for a deluxe HD master version - these HDTracks versions are not it! They also omit ALL the bluray content which is not trivial.

    Buy the box and the Creation sampler and continue being patient.
    Last edited by jimfisheye; 2017-03-28 at 06:27 PM.

  8. #2088
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimfisheye View Post
    In defense of these "mastered for portable devices" editions (as I'm calling them)
    Yes, and I have a problem with this because of all the valid complaints you have this is very misleading. If you have a problem with Andy's mastering choices then you are entitled to that opinion which I respect. But in no way were these mastered with portable devices or any media in mind. The audio tracks were mastered to sound as good as they can using his studio equipment and monitors.

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    Wouldn't it be something if Andy Jackson chimed in and gave us a run down of the processes used to go from master tapes to the TEY box set? I think many here are very interested in the technical details.

    Perhaps he is not allowed to, though.

  10. #2090
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    Quote Originally Posted by seremetcc View Post
    Wouldn't it be something if Andy Jackson chimed in and gave us a run down of the processes used to go from master tapes to the TEY box set? I think many here are very interested in the technical details.

    Perhaps he is not allowed to, though.
    He did. That's where all my info is coming from. We're in touch fairly regularly.

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