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    Default Rip and convert DVD and Blu-ray

    In this topic about the all new über expensive box set 'Early Years' people have been discussing the Blu-ray and DVD formats. Some people backup their discs to hard disk for easy listening and viewing. What I use is MakeMKV to backup DVD/Blu-ray to hard disk in MKV (Matroska) format. This format contains audio, video and subtitles. Don't forget to update MakeMKV's key every once in a while w/ the key posted here.

    The .mkv file may be further compressed. I use Linux and ffmpeg for that. Example of a convert to mp3 audio and h.264 (AVC) video, scaled to 848 x 480 pixels (= 16 : 9) with the subtitles and chapters intact:
    Code:
    ffmpeg -i "Ripped movie.mkv" -c:a mp3 -c:v libx264 -vf scale=848:480 -scodec copy "Ripped movie (use VLC for chapters).mkv"
    Wanna have only the audio? Then simply leave out the video codec (i.e. the -c:v part) and subtitle codec (-scodec) parts.

    I play all audio and video w/ a Raspberry Pi that runs OpenElec (a piece of software to utilize the Pi's AVC and DVD hardware playback capabilities (costs extra money for the keys) and to run the Kodi media center). A HDMI cable is connected to my LG television that has a digital audio output cable (toslink) which is fed to my antique Dolby Digital/DTS Receiver. Unfortunately not many TV's feature a digital audio output anymore and if they do they will not pass though DTS audio (rights issue)!

    So I have to convert DTS audio to AC3 (= DD 5.1). I use the immaculate ffmpeg for that again. Example:
    Code:
    ffmpeg -i "Movie with DTS audio.mkv" -c:v copy -c:a ac3 -ac 6 "Movie with DD 5.1 audio.avi"
    And if your ripped audio has a very high sample frequency of 96 kHz (Blu-rays!) then I have to re-sample the audio to 48 kHz or my equipment won't play it. Example:
    Code:
    ffmpeg -i "5.1 Surround Mix.flac" "5.1 Surround Mix.wav"
    Now resample to 48 kHz w/ sox:
    Code:
    sox "5.1 Surround Mix.wav" -r 48000 "5.1 Surround Mix.wav 48 kHz.wav"
    There's a lot more to it. But ffmepeg can handle it. If you have any (non-Windows and non-Mac) questions ask them. Or visit the appropriate forum (Linux, ffmpeg, multimedia, etc.).

    You Windows users will probably do it different, but FFMpeg and MakeMKV exist for Windows too. Most tools use it, but you're not aware of it (and some even pay money for it! Shame on you: ffmpeg is open source).
    Last edited by meneerjansen; 2016-08-09 at 07:31 PM.

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    Nice little howto.
    I'm a Linux user, and I can agree wholeheartedly that FFMPEG is like the ultimate Swiss Army knife for multimedia files.
    "I don't know; I was really drunk at the time." - Henry McCullough

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    I feel this is alway a touchy subject because you are essentially breaking the encryption on the disc but it's absolutely necessary if you wanna put everything on an easily accessible storage medium. I'm a Windows user and too dumb in command line knowledge to use programs like eac3to and other similar stuff.

    I will use AnyDVD (paid) to get around the encryption.

    If I want a full ISO backup on my HDD I will just use AnyDVD (paid) and just rip to ISO.

    If I need or want mkv's of separate videos I'll use MakeMKV (free) to achieve this.

    If I want full discs made smaller I'll use BD Rebuilder (free).

    If I wanna transcode those mkv's for smaller storage footprint I'll use VidCoder (free) to achieve this.

    To extract HD audio or any other audio off of a DVD or BD I have found AudioMuxer (free) will do this perfectly. You can also convert most audio formats with this program as well if you need to. As a side note, I found using DVDAE (paid) does not make smooth transitions between tracks on some occasions. This happened to me on the WYWH Immersion HD audio sets. Track 1 -> 2 was not smooth and I could hear a pop. This thoroughly bothers me and I can't accept that. AudioMuxer seems to do this for me flawlessly, and it's free!

    To play all of this material I mainly use Kodi (free & used to be called XBMC) and MPC-HC (free and and I also use in conjuntion with madVR). A lot of times for audio I will also use Foobar2000 (free with a WASAPI & shn plugin).

    If I want to author a BD with mkv's I've created I like using multiAVCHD (comes free with a major learning curve and lots of fiddling but your only free choice, development seems to have stopped now for quite a long while, it could use a major update but the dude who created it fell off the planet ).

    There's probably more that I'm missing and if I think of something else I'll add it. This isn't a how-to guide but more of a list of tools and how I use them.
    Last edited by buffalofloyd; 2016-08-04 at 05:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buffalofloyd View Post
    I feel this is alway a touchy subject because you are essentially breaking the encryption on the disc [...]
    Where I live (Holland, Europe) making a backup for personal use is legally allowed. So that shouldn't be a problem.


    P.S. Back in the day (10 years ago) on Windows I used Virtualdub and the TMpegEnc (Tsunami Mpeg Encoder) a lot. Both are free if I'm not mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    I don't know if your problem is re-encoding DTS 24 bit / 96 kHz to another format (shouldn't be too diffiult w/ the free opensource ffmpeg) or that your problem is playing it on equipment. But we might go itno that in the other topic. I'd like to know how y'all convert, rip and play DVD/Blu-ray.
    Ripping dts2406 content is not straightforward it turns out. The problem is that codec only decodes the core dts portion of dts 2496. Thus you get the fidelity of core dts at 48k 16 bit. Understand that this isn't just a reduction to 48k and to 16 bit. The core dts decode is a significantly degraded sound vs. a downsample to 48k and even a bit reduction to 16 bit.

    This is the only 'ringer' format that you have to watch out for that I'm aware of. The telltale that your decoder is not getting anything past the core dts is if the files decode to 48k.

    bluray and DVDA are straightforward.
    DVD Audio Extractor will take care of everything DVD based.
    MakeMKV for bluray and the license includes ongoing downloads of new copy protection codes as they come out.
    It's a one time fee of $50. This license is included in the purchase price of the standalone disc machines (and you have to update it by downloading and installing new firmware over the USB connection).

    I ended up grabbing the dts2496 codec from this Arcsoft product that was bundled with something else for a short time a few years ago. They wanted you to buy some $1200 media player suite or some such. I wasn't playing along. The thing it was bundled with was only written for Windows, so I have this kludged mess of a combination of this other Windows app AudioMuxer with the Arcsoft codec hacked in that I run in OSX with Wine.
    I think the media player suite apps are down to around $400 these days but I'm still not playing. I still use the free app Songbird. I like that you can just set Core Audio to 5.1 and forget it. Mix and match formats in a playlist (5.1, 4.1, 4.0, 2.0, etc) and everything comes out the correct speakers.

    I'm conformable enough with the decodes now to purchase the discs that come along. The Tull DVDs have been released in this awful format and I decided I can't live without hearing those Steve Wilson 5.1 remixes.

    The shenanigans are a bit of a theme these days and appear intentional.
    It used to be that "audiophile editions" cost more to make. Now that 24 bit 96k HD audio comes right off the mixing/mastering board and gets delivered losslessly direct to the consumer, they had to start faking things. Reduce it to 16 bit CD (for stereo) and then raise the price on the HD download or disc. Write codecs for media players that reduce the audio quality to create the opportunity to sell an "upgraded" machine. Leave the 5.1 mix off the "standard edition" and only include it in the $150 deluxe edition. Or my favorite: Reduce the master to 16 bit and only sell a physical CD. No download and the HD master is not available anywhere. Then just play dumb and wonder why people are sharing files instead of buying it! Ranting now...

    As far as legalities go...
    I believe there are music rental services out there. You rent the music and sign a SLA to not copy it (because you are only renting it and not buying it). I believe such services are cagey about it and don't use straightforward language like "rent".
    I recommend not renting music, but buying it instead.
    If you bought some music. It's yours to play as you please in your favorite media player device and as many times as you like. Simple as that. Since computers have become the "everything tool" and especially as media players, it's pretty foolish of anyone to suggest anything not SOP or out of place playing your music with a computer. But people try to sell just about anything and taking advantage of consumers lack of tech knowledge is commonplace these days. Buyer beware and all. Goes hand in hand with selling reduced quality copies and pretending that the full quality copies cost more to produce when it's literally the opposite. To be fair, I see signs of this coming to an end. The volume war stuff (mastering for portable device listening) is coming to an end too. The last couple years have been a breath of fresh air in general.
    Last edited by jimfisheye; 2016-08-04 at 06:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimfisheye View Post
    Ripping dts2406 content is not straightforward it turns out. The problem is that codec only decodes the core dts portion of dts 2496. Thus you get the fidelity of core dts at 48k 16 bit. Understand that this isn't just a reduction to 48k and to 16 bit. The core dts decode is a significantly degraded sound vs. a downsample to 48k and even a bit reduction to 16 bit.

    This is the only 'ringer' format that you have to watch out for that I'm aware of. The telltale that your decoder is not getting anything past the core dts is if the files decode to 48k.

    bluray and DVDA are straightforward.
    DVD Audio Extractor will take care of everything DVD based.
    MakeMKV for bluray and the license includes ongoing downloads of new copy protection codes as they come out.
    It's a one time fee of $50. This license is included in the purchase price of the standalone disc machines (and you have to update it by downloading and installing new firmware over the USB connection).

    I ended up grabbing the dts2496 codec from this Arcsoft product that was bundled with something else for a short time a few years ago. They wanted you to buy some $1200 media player suite or some such. I wasn't playing along. The thing it was bundled with was only written for Windows, so I have this kludged mess of a combination of this other Windows app AudioMuxer with the Arcsoft codec hacked in that I run in OSX with Wine.
    I think the media player suite apps are down to around $400 these days but I'm still not playing. I still use the free app Songbird. I like that you can just set Core Audio to 5.1 and forget it. Mix and match formats in a playlist (5.1, 4.1, 4.0, 2.0, etc) and everything comes out the correct speakers.

    I'm conformable enough with the decodes now to purchase the discs that come along. The Tull DVDs have been released in this awful format and I decided I can't live without hearing those Steve Wilson 5.1 remixes.
    Hi there,

    There's a few things that I understand and a few trems that you use that I'm not familiar with. What I think I understand:
    • You use a Mac.
    • You use said Apple Macintosh computer to playback (multi channel) audio.
    • I don't know if, and how, you connected said Mac to a multi-channel amplifier and how many speakers you have.
    • "Core Audio" is something for Mac only. It appears to me to be something like an audio driver (the Wiki says "API"). Question from me to other Linuxers: might it be compared to ALSA, Jack or PulseAudio?


    Anyway, about you probs w/ playing back audio w/ 'Core Audio' I hope that a Mac-er can answer you. Or you might want to go to a Mac forum. I don't know anything 'bout Mac.

    You talk about the "core portion of DTS". Sorry for the noob question, but what is that exactly? A codec? You also talk about ripping DTS 24 bit/96 kHZ is not straight forward but you also say that DVD and Blu-ray are straightforward. Ripping DTS from what medium (DVD, Blu-ray, SACD, DVD-Audio) is not so straight forward?

    I also see that you use MakeMKV. But do you use this software w/ "standalone disc machines"? What do you mean by that? An external Blu-ray drive that is connected to your computer via USB? You're also talking about a DTS codec from Arcsoft. I don't know what that is and why you would need that. I pass through the digital DD or DTS stream to my Amplifier which decodes the aaudio to analog and I have multiple spreakers connected to my amplifier. How do you pass audio to your amp? Digital or via 6 analog cables? Why would they want you to buy a $1200 media player for a codec? You can use a Raspberry Pi or a computer w/ a DD/DTS capable amplifier for that...

    What do you mean by a "audiomuxer w/ an Arcsoftcodec"? What do you mean by $400 "media player suite apps". Do you mean Media Center software? Kodi is free. And it plays almost anything.

    Songbird, if I'm not mistaken, is an alternative for iTunes (the media player applicatins, not he website that is). You don't have to use that. You might try the VLC player and if you want your media files indexed etc. you might consider Kodi (dunno if it exists for Mac though).

    What do you mean w/ "The [Yethro??] Tull DVDs have been released in this awful format". What format do you mean? DVD-video are always in the same format. MPEG2 for video and DD or DTS for the video (LPCM sterao is another if I'm not mistaken...). There is also DVDA (DVD-Audio, a concurrent for SACD's). Is that what you mean?

    Terminology that I use:
    • Codec = coder/decoder. A library that described how to decode video or audio to someting anmalog so it can be played back. Or how to encode it so it is compressed. Example: MP3.
    • DTS = Digital Theater Sound. A codec for multi-channel audio (i.e. 5.1) that is a concurrent for Dolby digital.
    • AC3= Dolby Digital = DD = A52
    • Digital (audio) output = s/pdif = Sony/Philips digital audio iunterface = IEC958.
    • Pass through = pass tru = not decoding audio to analog signals but passing the digital data steam (to TV or Amplifier).
    • Muxing= multiplexing = combining audio and video into one stram or file (like Xvid and MP3 into an AVI file).
    • Demuxing: splitting the audio and video from a stram or file.
    • DVD-video = a DVD for movies, contains MPEG2 video and often audio in DD or DTS.
    • DVD-Audio = a DVD w/ high bitrate high samplig frequency multi channel audio in LPCM format = meant as a high fidelity concurrent for SACD's.
    • WAV = uncompressed audio = CD (wav) audio is 44.1 kHz and 16 bit.
    Last edited by meneerjansen; 2016-08-04 at 06:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    Hi there,

    There's a few things that I understand and a few trems that you use that I'm not familiar with. What I think I understand:
    • You use a Mac.
    • You use said Apple Macintosh computer to playback (multi channel) audio.
    • I don't know if, and how, you connected said Mac to a multi-channel amplifier and how many speakers you have.
    • "Core Audio" is something for Mac only. It appears to me to be something like an audio driver (the Wiki says "API"). Question from me to other Linuxers: might it be compared to ALSA, Jack or PulseAudio?
    Mac user yes.
    I use the computer for all media needs (from creation to end user).
    Connected to one or more of the following devices:
    Apogee Rosetta800 192k AD-DA and interface
    Two MOTU 828mk3 interfaces
    Apogee PSX100SE & Apogee AD16 standalone AD-DA units used as well.

    No surround receiver. Crown amps.
    1 AR 5.1 surround set (high end consumer decent-ish)
    Pair of Genelec 1032A stereo and 2 other stereo pairs to check mixes on.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    Anyway, about you probs w/ playing back audio w/ 'Core Audio' I hope that a Mac-er can answer you. Or you might want to go to a Mac forum. I don't know anything 'bout Mac.
    Oh, no problems at all!
    I was just pointing out the ringer that is dts2496. This format consistently gets terrible reviews and it's because of the difficulty in decoding it.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    You talk about the "core portion of DTS". Sorry for the noob question, but what is that exactly? A codec?
    The newer formats of DTS (DTS2496 & DTS MA) are designed to be able to play on older equipment that is not programmed for the newer formats. It reverts to "core dts" which is what the original "worst" version of dts was. Newer machines decode it fully. The premise was that consumers with older machines would still have some sound come out of the speakers when they buy the newer discs.

    People like me are opining that the sound in that case is so messed up that it would be better if the disc didn't play at all in older machines.

    DTS2496 seems to be only "core decoding" even in newer machines and newer ripping apps. Hence "ringer".

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    You also talk about ripping DTS 24 bit/96 kHZ is not straight forward but you also say that DVD and Blu-ray are straightforward. Ripping DTS from what medium (DVD, Blu-ray, SACD, DVD-Audio) is not so straight forward?
    I've only seen dts2496 used on DVD-Video discs.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    I also see that you use MakeMKV.
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    But do you use this software w/ "standalone disc machines"?
    No
    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    What do you mean by that?
    "Standalone machine" means a hardware disc playing machine that is not a computer. A DVD player like an Oppo.
    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    An external Blu-ray drive that is connected to your computer via USB?
    Nope. Internal SATA connected bluray drive in the Mac Pro.
    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    You're also talking about a DTS codec from Arcsoft. I don't know what that is and why you would need that.
    Well, as discussed, this is what I found to decode dts2496 properly. Decode to wav/flac that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    I pass through the digital DD or DTS stream to my Amplifier which decodes the aaudio to analog and I have multiple spreakers connected to my amplifier.
    I decode with the computer, pass the data digitally via firewire to the connected audio interface. Then analog outputs to the amps. However I like to convert anything proprietary (like dts) to standard flac files so I'm normally not decoding on the fly. But sometimes I'll impatiently throw the bluray or DVD disc in the tower and hit play. (Often the day it arrives)
    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    How do you pass audio to your amp? Digital or via 6 analog cables?
    6 analog cables
    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    Why would they want you to buy a $1200 media player for a codec? You can use a Raspberry Pi or a computer w/ a DD/DTS capable amplifier for that...
    Good question! Greed I guess and taking advantage of the complexity of this stuff to swindle people?

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    What do you mean by a "audiomuxer w/ an Arcsoftcodec"? What do you mean by $400 "media player suite apps". Do you mean Media Center software? Kodi is free. And it plays almost anything.
    I mean I found this audio ripping app called Audiomuxer and then I hacked the Arcsoft decoder into it. Was messy... But it works!

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    Songbird, if I'm not mistaken, is an alternative for iTunes (the media player applicatins, not he website that is). You don't have to use that. You might try the VLC player and if you want your media files indexed etc. you might consider Kodi (dunno if it exists for Mac though).
    What I don't like about VLC player is it requires you to reset your audio system for different speaker formats. (Core Audio is what the audio system for Mac OSX is called. You open the utility Audio MIDI Setup to select stereo, 5.1, 7,1, etc for your sound system.) You can't mix 4.0 and 5.1 tracks in the same playlist. You'd need to reset core audio to 4.0 and then to 5.1 for everything to come out the correct speakers. Therefor Songbird is more convenient! I do use VLC for video when it's only stereo. The surround issue is the only faux pas in VLC.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    What do you mean w/ "The [Yethro??] Tull DVDs have been released in this awful format". What format do you mean? DVD-video are always in the same format. MPEG2 for video and DD or DTS for the video (LPCM sterao is another if I'm not mistaken...). There is also DVDA (DVD-Audio, a concurrent for SACD's). Is that what you mean?
    I mean just that. No bluray. No DVDA. Just a DVDV with the 5.1 surround program in dts2496 format.

    FYI, dts (and dolby) are lossy conversions that store 6 channels of surround sound program in only 2 channels. Literally made to deliver surround using only existing 2 channel devices. The decode of standard dts is... less than perfect. Dolby is a magnitude worse (it's older). There are newer formats of "extended" dts that are better. DTS-MA is kind of like MLP or FLAC in that (fully decoded by the right codec) it is lossless. DTS2496 is "nearly lossless". You'll be hard pressed to tell the difference vs. the lossless master but it falls apart severely if not fully decoded as discussed.

    Think I got all that!
    That help?
    Last edited by jimfisheye; 2016-08-04 at 07:20 PM.

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    @Jimfisheye Holy mackerel Batman! I didn't know that multi-channel and high fidelity audio has progressed THAT much since my cheap antique DTS/DD5.1 Sony STR-DE485 receiver from 2001. That one has only two dig. inputs: toslink (= optical) and RCA (= mini coax). No analog inputs and no HDMI (that didn't exist yet in 2001!) So SACD was out of the question for me at the time (an SACD player outputs only analog signals so you can't make dig. copies).

    Thank you for your explanation about what DTS is now-a-days. I appears that ye' 'olde DTS that I use (I knew that is was lossy and compressed) has been replaced by DTS2496. I was in an high end audio equipment store the other day. All multi-channel receivers were set to "DTS" and they used Blu-rays for the music that they played. I laughed. I thought that DTS was followed up by Dolby 7.1 and what have you not. I thought DTS was obsolete. Now I understand why they were set to "DTS".

    That whole "core DTS" story reminds me of Microsoft embedding a bitmap version of its fonts in True Type so it can be displayed on older computers. The font 'Times New Roman' therefore still renders badly on most computer screens (it prints just fine of course). I had absolutely NO idea that there was a new and improved version of DTS and that the old one was still in there for backwards compatibility.

    I'm afraid that I do not have enough experience w/ dig. audio formats and high end 6 channel dig. to analoge equipment to help you the get the proper output from DTS2496 nor do I have an idea how to extract it from DTS2496 (yet).

    I take it that my old movie DVD's that have DTS audio are of the "old format"? And that all Blu-ray's have the new DTS2496 format which plays "old" DTS on my amplifier from 2001?


    P.S. Considering the high end audio equipment that you own a Raspberry Pi would be no option for you I think. It's low end I think.
    Last edited by meneerjansen; 2016-08-05 at 12:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    @Jimfisheye Holy mackerel Batman! I didn't know that multi-channel and high fidelity audio has progressed THAT much since my cheap antique DTS/DD5.1 Sony STR-DE485 receiver from 2001. That one has only two dig. inputs: toslink (= optical) and RCA (= mini coax). No analog inputs and no HDMI (that didn't exist yet in 2001!) So SACD was out of the question for me at the time (an SACD player outputs only analog signals so you can't make dig. copies).
    Things are getting back on track finally and better than they've ever been for audio. We had a decade of paranoia fueled devices that restricted playback quality (as a form of copy protection) and lots of stuff - especially surround receivers - with bait & switch features.

    Here's the deal (and you're not going to like this because you have the worst case):
    Easy:
    2010 or newer computer with thunderbolt port (or unrestricted HDMI port) patched to a surround receiver with HDMI input
    You get full quality lossless discreet surround playback (to the best quality of the media in question).

    Less easy:
    Older computer.
    An audio interface with 6 analog outputs is the ONLY choice for delivering full quality lossless discreet surround audio.
    A receiver with 6 analog inputs is the ONLY choice for receiving full quality lossless discreet surround audio.

    Worst case scenario:
    Older computer with no thunderbolt or HDMI + a receiver with both no HDMI and no analog inputs.
    You need to replace both if you want to listen to lossless surround content.
    Further, a standalone DVD player will not help. There would be no way to connect it to the receiver, just like the computer.



    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    Thank you for your explanation about what DTS is now-a-days. I appears that ye' 'olde DTS that I use (I knew that is was lossy and compressed) has been replaced by DTS2496. I was in an high end audio equipment store the other day. All multi-channel receivers were set to "DTS" and they used Blu-rays for the music that they played. I laughed. I thought that DTS was followed up by Dolby 7.1 and what have you not. I thought DTS was obsolete. Now I understand why they were set to "DTS".
    DTS and Dolby make the same product: Software that encodes 6 channels (of 5.1) into 2 (8 channels for 7.1). Dolby is the older obsolete one and it's significantly poorer quality than DTS.

    I'd say DTS has been replaced by DTS MA. This is fully lossless (like FLAC or MLP). DTS 2496 is in between. And like I said, I think the low quality "core dts" decodes were being used to market higher priced machines and software suites. The fact that modern software is doing this is a red flag. This doesn't happen by accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    That whole "core DTS" story reminds me of Microsoft embedding a bitmap version of its fonts in True Type so it can be displayed on older computers. The font 'Times New Roman' therefore still renders badly on most computer screens (it prints just fine of course). I had absolutely NO idea that there was a new and improved version of DTS and that the old one was still in there for backwards compatibility.
    That's a good analogy. There is an innocent ingenuity to that too.
    Talk of shenanigans and baiting aside. The con to this is the opinion that it would be better to force the issue and NOT "improperly" play content in older machines. Like the director for Wizard Of Oz putting his foot down and not allowing it to be shown in black and while only theaters.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    I'm afraid that I do not have enough experience w/ dig. audio formats and high end 6 channel dig. to analoge equipment to help you the get the proper output from DTS2496 nor do I have an idea how to extract it from DTS2496 (yet).
    Like I said, I worked it all out. Follow my instructions and it will work for you too. I mention this as a PSA. Knowing what the low quality core dts decode sounds like and reading reviews of releases in this format tells me that MOST people are not decoding it correctly/fully.
    This horsing around is only needed for content delivered in dts2496! That's why I said bluray and DVDA are "easy". Normally I refuse to buy that kind of stuff but I broke down for the Tull releases. Pick your battles.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    I take it that my old movie DVD's that have DTS audio are of the "old format"? And that all Blu-ray's have the new DTS2496 format which plays "old" DTS on my amplifier from 2001?
    Blurays usually use either DTS MA (fully lossless), MLP (fully lossless), or straight PCM (obviously fully lossless - but takes twice the disc space).
    Yes, older DVD's (and the "core dts decode" from the newer formats) decode to 16 bit 48k PCM 5.1 audio. The fidelity is diminished FAR beyond what downsampling and bit reducing 24/96 to 16/48 would do.

    If you only have a SPDIF or TOSLINK connection on your receiver, then it can only receive encoded core dts. FYI, the loss in this format goes pretty far beyond mp3 badness. The discreetness takes a big hit (turns half mono) and it's very much like hanging thick blankets over the speakers. It's just ugly that these products were ever produced because you have probably decent amps in that unit that shouldn't have to be replaced just to upgrade your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by meneerjansen View Post
    P.S. Considering the high end audio equipment that you own a Raspberry Pi would be no option for you I think. It's low end I think.
    These things have their uses. If you're thinking about remote control though, I have an iPad that I use for that around the house. Just basic remote desktop with the default screen sharing connection.

    Aside:
    SACD is a whole different subject!
    In short, you understand that PCM digital takes samples of the audio (the sample rate is the number/sec). You get a file of ones and zeros that make a pattern and translate back to audio. Well, Sony came along and decided to literally make a new system where the ones and zeros were a new different code for the audio. Even though no one was complaining about 24 bit 96k PCM digital - and in fact you often see claims that 24/96 sounds no better than 24/44.1 - they decided to make a new format that was just as good (no better, no worse, and I suppose just as "silly" to those that claim to not hear a difference between low def and HD in PCM digital). So... everybody from studios to consumers - throw away the most expensive pieces of equipment you own and start over with this different format that's the same quality in the end! Stupid greedy! This is the format I really want to see gone for good! Sony did give up (bluray is PCM digital again). But now we have a few diehards out there still selling in SACD format (DSD).


    I hope this is helpful!
    There are a lot of good things happening these days with audio. But there are still complexities with surround sound and a handful of products out there to truly watch out for and avoid. An expensive surround receiver with 6 channels of amplifiers but with no proper input so it literally cannot receive lossless surround program is pretty... special. Stay far away from stores like Worst Purchase!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimfisheye View Post
    ....Stay far away from stores like Worst Purchase!
    Yeppers, a few years back that store diddled me on a Yammy receiver. They told me it was HDMI and I thought "woo hoo, I'm good to go". Little did I know at the time that it was HDMI for passthrough video ONLY. I was still fairly green about the hi-def stuff (it was still fairly new) so I assumed that my bluray & DVD players just didn't go well with HDMI audio, so I used digital coax and optical cables, still (naively) thinking I was getting "full" quality (because the guy at BB told me so...). Recently I finally upgraded to a proper HDMI set up all around with a newer Yammy amp, which I love.

    I do have a question - to get "full" DTS-MA / 24-96 surround etc without any in-between processing, it is suggested to set my Yammy to "straight" for the sound field - any experience with this?

    Great info, great thread. Thanks guys!

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