Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 86

Thread: "The Wall" as a triple album

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    172
    Thanks
    75
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aguycalledm View Post
    "No songs were taken off The Wall and later put on The Final Cut. Just pieces of music, ideas, lyrics, and themes made the transition from one to the other. "

    We know the track listing for Bricks In The Wall. It sounds like most of the mythical leftovers were more like various stages of song fragments and ideas. I think Possible Pasts was one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by danielcaux View Post
    Does Vernon's Final Cut book mention which songs were written for The Wall movie soundtrack? Gilmour says Your Possible Pasts, One of The Few, The Hero's Return and The Final Cut were Wall leftovers, but apart from Teacher Teacher there aren't any traces of those songs on any of the productions demos or recording logs for the album. So, my personal theory is that if those songs were indeed leftovers from The Wall, they probably were leftovers from phase 3 of The Wall: the movie, not the actual album. That's probably why Gilmour remembers the songs being around before work on TFC album began.
    Quote Originally Posted by aguycalledm View Post
    "We sort of got... stuck into making this album," Gilmour says candidly. (A soundtrack for The Wall was owed, and PinkFloyd substituted the Cut album.) "So we wound up doing some new songs. They are related to the story of The Wall." "The Post War Dream," "Your Possible Pasts," "The Hero's Return," "The Fletcher Memorial Home" and the title song were all on hand; but revised and collected, they suggested the possibility of a whole new project."
    Quote Originally Posted by aguycalledm View Post
    The Final Cut is often rumored to have been considered to close out The Wall. I think it was probably in the same stage of development as Possible Pasts. I can't confirm it yet, so I'm wondering if this is just one of those things that got said once and has just kind been accepted as fact ever since. At one point, they already had a lot of stuff closing The Wall after The Trial -- Outside The Wall + Never Too Late + Instrumental theme from The Thin Ice. If you added Final Cut to that, that would make Side 4 nothing but conclusions. I like how The Wall closes now -- the quiet cycle of Outside The Wall.
    Interesting to note, my mind instantly connected the melody and rhythmic syncopation of the lyrical verses of The Final Cut (i.e., "Through the fish-eyed lens of tear-stained eyes...") to the clarinet melody apparent on Outside The Wall.

    If you transpose it from C to F, it becomes apparent that Roger was working on similar melodious themes and motifs during production of The Wall album, much akin to his borrowing of his own ideas found in future Pros & Cons track 4:58am Dunroamin' Duncarin' Dunlivin' for In The Flesh?. So it may not even be a mere coincidence that the melodies and ideas for the song The Final Cut, although highly probable to be incomplete in 1978-9, could be viewed as an idea birthed around the time of the writing and producing of The Wall.

    An amazing notion to consider that such a song as The Final Cut was rumoured for closing The Wall. It's beyond dark, brooding and bleak; Pink searches for redemption through an act of desperation, delivered from which was borne from a simple telephone call (not the first time a telephone is referenced on The Wall). Did the wall even come down? Isn't this where we came in? And who? The cyclical re-birth of life? The Funny Farm in Chalfont? The surrogate band? Ma? Who called??

    I am also intrigued about the song The Thin Ice being considered early on as a repeating motif throughout the album's narrative. It almost has that surreal, Syd Barrett-type Technicolor-meets-nursery-rhyme melancholy summer feeling (before the dark part sets in), reflecting in some form of warm nostalgia. It certainly would have lent something interesting to the album had they decided on repeating this themed piece of music.

    Interesting thread M, thanks for starting a great discussion! It is certainly something of merit to deliberate over, even if just for enthused creative conversation. : -)

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Posts
    40
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 87 Times in 4 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut Shaft View Post
    Interesting thread M, thanks for starting a great discussion! It is certainly something of merit to deliberate over, even if just for enthused creative conversation. : -)
    I can't take credit for the thread. Someone named @SurrogateMember started it here (and elsewhere). But, thank you. When the hits started piling up on my website, I just followed the referrals back to insure that I'm part of the discussion.

    But everyone in this forum and thread have been awesome and this truly has been an outstanding and enlightening discussion of a topic that inherently has great potential to go south.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut Shaft View Post
    An amazing notion to consider that such a song as The Final Cut was rumoured for closing The Wall. It's beyond dark, brooding and bleak; Pink searches for redemption through an act of desperation, delivered from which was borne from a simple telephone call (not the first time a telephone is referenced on The Wall). Did the wall even come down? Isn't this where we came in? And who? The cyclical re-birth of life? The Funny Farm in Chalfont? The surrogate band? Ma? Who called??
    I like how The Wall ends now with 'Outside The Wall'. It ends the album on a quiet, positive-ish note. I agree. Winding down the album with 'The Final Cut' (as great a song it is) would have been beyond bleak.

    At one point around the first band demo, 'The Thin Ice' would have bookended (sort of) the album. Not really a full-blown repeating motif like the the Bricks Main Theme, but another recurring musical theme nonetheless.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,293
    Thanks
    96
    Thanked 888 Times in 24 Posts

    Default

    This is really an interresting thread!
    I like reading all these stories about The Wall and The Final Cut. It's great to gain even more knowledge about that era. I remember the first time I listened to my dads TFC vinyl when I was still discovering the band, I immediately thought it had a Wall-ish feel to it. But I had no idea that the stories was somewhat connected and that the teacher was also present on TFC. When english is not your main language it can be hard to understand the meaning of lyrics (I'm danish btw).
    I also clearly remember the first time I got hold of a copy of The Wall demos in 2001, I was blown away of how great some of the early takes was. I mean they have a totally different feel to them, and to my ears sound much more like the earlier Pink Floyd , and to this day I like some of those demos a lot more than the final versions And when the Wall Immersion box came out with even more demos, a whole lot of them actually (some of them being huge upgrades of the ones we had before) you could really hear how the album could have sounded if it had not been edited. The piano solo in The This Ice is so beautiful (is it Rick??) and the extended themes are great and would have made the whole album flow much better IMHO. There are also the alternate versions of Young Lust and Comfortably Numb (I think I can count 4 different versions of CN each with different lyrics).
    I don't by any means dislike The Wall as it is now, but it does feel a bit rough and lacks much of the classic Floyd sound. Again the demos clearly show that the album had the potential of sounding much more Floyd'ish. Of course this is totally my opinion.
    I have a feeling that if this project will be finished and The Wall becomes a 3-disc epic, it will indeed get a much better flow and sound much more like 'it should have'.
    I'm really happy that you guys are doing such a great research and putting so much work into creating this.
    I can't wait to hear the final result

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Curitiba, Brazil
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut Shaft View Post
    Interesting to note, my mind instantly connected the melody and rhythmic syncopation of the lyrical verses of The Final Cut (i.e., "Through the fish-eyed lens of tear-stained eyes...") to the clarinet melody apparent on Outside The Wall.

    If you transpose it from C to F, it becomes apparent that Roger was working on similar melodious themes and motifs during production of The Wall album, much akin to his borrowing of his own ideas found in future Pros & Cons track 4:58am Dunroamin' Duncarin' Dunlivin' for In The Flesh?. So it may not even be a mere coincidence that the melodies and ideas for the song The Final Cut, although highly probable to be incomplete in 1978-9, could be viewed as an idea birthed around the time of the writing and producing of The Wall.

    An amazing notion to consider that such a song as The Final Cut was rumoured for closing The Wall. It's beyond dark, brooding and bleak; Pink searches for redemption through an act of desperation, delivered from which was borne from a simple telephone call (not the first time a telephone is referenced on The Wall). Did the wall even come down? Isn't this where we came in? And who? The cyclical re-birth of life? The Funny Farm in Chalfont? The surrogate band? Ma? Who called??

    I am also intrigued about the song The Thin Ice being considered early on as a repeating motif throughout the album's narrative. It almost has that surreal, Syd Barrett-type Technicolor-meets-nursery-rhyme melancholy summer feeling (before the dark part sets in), reflecting in some form of warm nostalgia. It certainly would have lent something interesting to the album had they decided on repeating this themed piece of music.

    Interesting thread M, thanks for starting a great discussion! It is certainly something of merit to deliberate over, even if just for enthused creative conversation. : -)
    Regarding The Final Cut, I placed it where I did (in between Stop and The Trial), simply due to the narrative. As I interpret the song, it's sort of a continuation of his breakdown on Stop, where he wonders if he's guilty and so forth. He feels depressed, and adresses the difficulty that anyone would have to "have access" to Pink, as isolated mentally as he was. In the end of the tune, he tries to "bare his naked feelings", but fails to do so, triggering all the events that happen during The Trial, as the line "showing feelings of an almost human nature" shows us.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 37 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    The other thing that is interesting to contemplate is what might have happened had the move to the CD era happened just a few years earlier.

    Would the triple-LP idea have ended up a double-CD? Or would they have trimmed off another few minutes to fit the whole album on a single CD?

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    2
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aguycalledm View Post
    A longer version of The Wall sounds pretty great, actually!

    Restoring the missing songs and bits helps the album to flow much better. One of the things that always annoyed me about The Wall is how some of the musical phrases sounded half-finished. Structurally, I'd always felt that they should have been longer.

    Restoring some of the missing tracks fleshes out the story a little more and adds depth to some of the secondary characters, especially The Teacher.

    How could you split up The Wall into 3 LPs in such a way that doesn't break up the narrative of each side? The two-programme Wall is so classic and so ingrained, I wouldn't even want to try to resequence the sides like that. I think it's better to approach it like "What if The Wall had originally been 2 CDs instead of 2 LPs?" That way, you've got at least 65 minutes per disc to work with.

    If that were the case, I don't think the album would have been trimmed nearly as much as it was. It would sound complete and less like the radio edit it sometimes does. Those extra few seconds shaved from most of the songs really help the album's pacing. The Wall was edited to tighten the story and to get it to fit onto two LPs. I think Bob Ezrin may have edited it a little too much in places.

    "Run Like Hell" would finally sound right.

    The extra minute of Gilmour's second guitar solo at the end of Comfortably Numb? Yes, please. Could you imagine that?

    "What Shall We Do Now?" wouldn't have been cut and maybe they wouldn't have had to obscure a minute of "Young Lust" with a phone call if they'd had more time on the album side to sequence it standalone like on the live album.

    We might have gotten both "Teacher, Teacher" and "Happiest Days...."

    Even just a studio version of the Is There Anybody Out There? album with no extra tracks would be incredible.

    I'm not sure how many of the "spare bricks" from The Final Cut we'd have gotten. Time was also a factor as there was a deadline to have The Wall in stores for the 1979 Christmas holiday. I would have liked to have had "Possible Pasts" included on The Wall, though. In the end, I think it was a good call to add "Tigers" to the movie. For me, it doesn't make the album about Roger. We already knew that....

    Full disclosure: I write TheWallComplete.com, a website about finding and restoring all the bits which were cut from The Wall before its release. I'm a recovering DJ and The Wall Complete represents a decades-long love of Pink Floyd's music along with an unhealthy amount of obsession. I've been researching this project for years.


    Wow man!! Great job on the breakdown of The Wall!
    (No Pun Intended)
    Amazing site with very good details!!

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    24
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 112 Times in 2 Posts

    Default

    Very interesting and helpful thread.

    I'm not much of a Wall fan as-it-stands either, and have always dreamed (especially after the band demos were released) of a version that's more dark and Floydish instead of the late-70s-cocaine-discofied-record that we all know - that means I too have done a version, which I felt like sharing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moISM8S0LnI
    As you can see, in just the same case as everyone else's, there are rules and reasoning to my thoughts about this. I also wrote a short story similar to Peter Gabriel's for The Lamb so as to try and explain the sequence of events.

    Personally, I don't think The Wall should have been longer as I believe it should have been purer, lesser as a Roger Waters record (as much as it was his pet project) and more as Pink Floyd record, with just the four members, and Bob Ezrin in the role of passive rather than active producer (Steve Albini vs. Brian Eno, if you will).

    To finish, I'd like to echo an idea from the 'Pros & Cons as PF album' thread: Roger should release the complete '78 demos of both projects for us near-pathological enthusiasts!
    Last edited by TheMoebLoop; 11-05-2017 at 01:34 AM.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Curitiba, Brazil
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMoebLoop View Post
    Very interesting and helpful thread.

    I'm not much of a Wall fan as-it-stands either, and have always dreamed (especially after the band demos were released) of a version that's more dark and Floydish instead of the late-70s-cocaine-discofied-record that we all know - that means I too have done a version, which I felt like sharing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moISM8S0LnI
    As you can see, in just the same case as everyone else's, there are rules and reasoning to my thoughts about this. I also wrote a short story similar to Peter Gabriel's for The Lamb so as to try and explain the sequence of events.

    Personally, I don't think The Wall should have been longer as I believe it should have been purer, lesser as a Roger Waters record (as much as it was his pet project) and more as Pink Floyd record, with just the four members, and Bob Ezrin in the role of passive rather than active producer (Steve Albini vs. Brian Eno, if you will).

    To finish, I'd like to echo an idea from the 'Pros & Cons as PF album' thread: Roger should release the complete '78 demos of both projects for us near-pathological enthusiasts!
    I just listened to the first half of your project, and I must say, that's some stellar work right there, thanks for your effort. And also, releasing the two 1978 demos would be a great idea, actually! Would end up solving many of the disputes in this thread, and make for a curious listen, to say the very least!

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bogota, Colombia
    Posts
    272
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 309 Times in 8 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scmods View Post
    The other thing that is interesting to contemplate is what might have happened had the move to the CD era happened just a few years earlier.

    Would the triple-LP idea have ended up a double-CD? Or would they have trimmed off another few minutes to fit the whole album on a single CD?
    That's interesting, as some artists nowadays still don't use the complete 70 minutes of a CD, while others try to pack as much as possible. Maybe The Wall would have ended more or less the same. Maybe it would have been a full 2CD from the beginning without all the trimming to fit vinyl.

    Other records would have benefited as well from the extra time, with more songs in the early albums, or longer versions of certain songs.
    But then I think on how much longer Dogs and Sheep would have been, and then I really thank vinyl had its limitations and CD wasn't available in 1977.
    R.M.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,389
    Thanks
    250
    Thanked 871 Times in 10 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ruben77 View Post
    But then I think on how much longer Dogs and Sheep would have been, and then I really thank vinyl had its limitations and CD wasn't available in 1977.
    Why would you think that those songs would have meant to be any longer?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •