Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 40 of 40

Thread: Ummagumma - the studio album

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    93
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by falbrav View Post
    When the subject is 1969, I always see this point about MATJ that could have been a studio album. Honestly I never understood how this could have happened. They used tracks from Piper and Saucerful in it, and from More as well. And there is no chance that they could have skipped More: they had the offer for that soundtrack, it was their easiest way to make some money, so we must assume that MATJ, if it was ever released, it would have been their fourth album in any case. And I don't see how it could have been a studio one without being largely a compilation-anthology, that would have been quite a nonsense.
    I think that MATJ should have been released for sure, but as a live album. As it was indeed, a show with old and new tracks. Of course it could have been compiled from some different concerts (Narrow way from Amsterdam?! don't think so....), but no way a studio one. And actually I think that the tracks from More were much better live than in studio.
    For me MATJ would have been better than Ummagumma, but of course if it had been released something would have changed in their following albums. At least they should have found a place for a proper release of Careful, in a Ummagumma-like version. Not sure about othere tracks like Sysyphus, maybe they would have never been released. Who knows
    Yes, all that's true of course, there's a reason they couldn't have made an album out of it even though the result would have been wonderful. The tragedy of it is that almost all the "recycled" songs in the piece had benefited immensely from being developed further in live performances - Cymbaline in particular sounds like a bare-bones demo on the album compared to the much more dramatic (and longer) live performances. Saucerful of Secrets also improved exponentially after the album version - Dave's voice and Nick's pounding drums in Celestial Voices are pure frisson. The alternate universe in which TMATJ became its own album has those songs being perfected before being put down on studio tape rather than after... how great that would have been!

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    80
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Ummagumma studio album is IMO Floyd second best album from the 60s, after PATGOD. I always loved it since the first listen, so trippy and cinematic, it always takes me into weird places. It's the perfect listen for a sunny sunday afternoon. I'm a Several Species lover, which is no surprise as I'm also an On The Run lover. Really love those sfx oriented/experimental tracks that Waters was conjuring up in the late 60 and early 70s -- the "body sounds" track from Music From The Body being another highlight for me!

    The only weak part for me is Nick' piece, where nothing really interesting happens. Kind of anticlimatic to end the album with that piece. Although, that said, the kind of peaceful vibe the intro and outtro have kinda helps you to come down from the mind trip at the end of the album.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    94
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default You Are Not Alone

    Great thread. Grantchester Meadows and The Narrow Way were the only tracks I appreciated as a young man. Several Species used to hold the record for longest song title, wonder if it still does? I wish they had recorded the studio side live ala TMTJ as I feel it is a bit of a dud the way it is sequenced and unattached.

    All that said there is a blog I have been following for a few years now 'Albums That Never Were by SonicLoveNoize' a few months ago he did a redo of a previous attempt at a TMTJ studio version. He also has many more albums worth looking at including 4 albums made on the premise that Syd never left the group. quality stuff and professionally mixed.

    cover.jpg

    "This is a studio reconstruction of the never-recorded experimental performance piece of “The Man and The Journey”, often titled The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes. This reconstruction attempts to present a version of the performance that would have taken the place of the More soundtrack and Ummagumma album, only utilizing studio recordings and condensing the performance down to two sides of a vinyl album."

    Side A:
    01. Daybreak, Pt 1
    02. Work
    03. Afternoon
    04. Doing It!
    05. Sleeping
    06. Nightmare
    07. Daybreak, Pt 2

    Side B:
    08. The Beginning
    09. Beset By Creatures of the Deep
    10. The Narrow Way
    11. The Pink Jungle
    12. The Labyrinths of Auximenes
    13. Behold The Temple of Light
    14. The End of The Beginning

    The upgrades to this September 2017 edition are:
    “Careful of that Axe Eugene” is used for “Beset by Creatures of the Deep” instead of “Come In Number 51, Your Time Is Up”
    “Main Theme” is used for “The Pink Jungle” instead of the live version of “Syncopated Pandemonium”
    “The Grand Vizier’s Garden Party II” is used for “The Labyrinths of Auximenes” instead of the live version of “Interstellar Overdrive”
    A new, longer edit of “Behold The Temple of Light was created.
    “Cirrus Minor” is used for “The End of The Beginning” instead of the live version of “Celestial Voices”.

    Musical soul-searching was the predominant mindset in 1969 for Pink Floyd. The previous year had seen the band attempt to mimic their former bandleader’s singles-oriented approach to psyche-pop with their second release A Saucerful of Secrets as well as the single releases “It Would Be So Nice” and “Point Me At the Sky”. While both singles failed to make any significant chart impact, it was actually the latter’s instrumental b-side “Careful With That Axe Eugene” that garnished some underground FM-radio play, prompting the band to make it a live staple. Following the cues of their audience’s reaction to the one-off track, Pink Floyd switched gears and focused on what the remaining four members could do the best without Syd Barrett: sprawling, experimental psychedelic jams.

    The perfect opportunity to test these waters came in February 1969, recording the soundtrack for the film More at Pyre Studios in London. For several months, the band tracked a few songs and a number of musical themes for director Barbet Schroeder that ranged from Pink Floyd’s typical space rock to pastoral ballads, from exotic influences to even proto-metal hard rock. The soundtrack album was released in June and while not a critical nor commercial success, several of the album’s highlights were added to their current set, including “Green is The Colour” and “Cymbaline”. But More was not all; by then Pink Floyd had also been working on their own proper follow-up to A Saucerful of Secrets.

    That Spring, each member of Pink Floyd entered Abbey Road studios alone to record solo material, intended to be collected together as the next Pink Floyd album. Although Nick Mason and Richard Wright’s material was largely instrumental and experimental, Roger Water’s and David Gilmour’s material each featured a song that had already been performed live with the full band, “Grantchester Meadows” and “The Narrow Way”. Paired with exquisite live recordings from The Mothers Club on April 27th and the Manchester College of Commerce on May 2nd, Ummagumma was released in October and cemented Pink Floyd’s status as a cult band, prepared to push rock’s envelope, even without hit singles.

    While both More and Ummagumma tell a story of Pink Floyd’s progress in 1969, it is not the complete story. With new and original material spread across two separate albums essentially recorded simultaneously, as well as another two albums-worth of material in their back pocket, the band pondered how to present the material in a cohesive live setting beyond the typical rock band performance. Choosing to cull the highlights from both projects as well as their favorite instrumental jams from The Piper at the Gates of Dawn and A Saucerful of Secrets (as well as the b-side that was the catalyst for it all), Pink Floyd designed a series of performances from April to June, sometimes entitled The Massed Gadgets of Auximenes but usually titled “The Man and The Journey”.

    “The Man & The Journey” was arranged as two 40-minute movements, and utilized the newly-built Azimuth Coordinator, a primitive incarnation of a surround sound system which played pre-recorded samples meant to fit into the performances itself. The first set—called “The Man”—seemed to follow the events of a typical person throughout his mundane, British, post-Industrial life. The set included the members of Pink Floyd actually building a table on-stage (to represent ‘Work’) and being served tea (to represent ‘Teatime’). The concept, as explained by Gilmour, was inspired by graffiti near Paddington Station, which said “Get up, go to work, come home, go to bed, get up, go to work, come home, go to bed, [repeated]... How much longer can you keep this up? How much longer before you crack?”

    The concept of the second set is less clearly defined and seemed to be largely instrumental and improvisational. Called “The Journey”, sketches from the performances’ playbill—and even the songs themselves—seem to suggest the piece follows a pilgrim’s quest. A member of Pink Floyd’s crew even appeared in a sea creature’s costume, moving through the audience and appearing on-stage near the end of the set. Is there some greater meaning or metaphor beyond this? Is this the Man’s own spiritual journey through existence? Knowing Pink Floyd’s conceptual pretensions, that very well might be the case. But Pink Floyd has never given any hints of what the journey nor its prize was, the task apparently left to the imaginations of the listeners. My own interpretation is that “The Journey” is the evolution of agricultural mankind into industrial mankind, the quest for knowledge and technology; while there isn’t an actual Greek name Auximines, it could be stemmed from the Latin auxiliāris (to help) and the first pharaoh of Egypt, Menes (whose name translates to “he who endures”), literally a metaphor for the king (of humanity) who is assisted by gadgets (our technology) as he endures (history).

    After two seasons of performances of “The Man & The Journey” which concluded with a penultimate performance in Amsterdam on September 17th professionally recorded by VPRO Radio, Pink Floyd retired the conceptual pieces in time for Ummagumma’s release in October. Unfortunately, the music assembled as “The Man & The Journey” was never formally recorded in the studio, suggesting that it was simply a way for the band to present the disparaging More and Ummagumma material in a live setting, rather than “The Man & The Journey” being the true genesis of either albums. But is there a way to construct a studio version of “The Man & The Journey”, to condense and create some sort of conceptual order to Pink Floyd’s 1969 output?

    My reconstruction of “The Man & The Journey” will have two rules. The first (which I regretfully broke when I originally reconstructed this album a few years ago) is that only studio material recorded in this era will be allowed. This will exclude both live material and anything after 1969. The problem that arises from this rule is that some of these pieces (“Work” and “Behold The Temple of Light”, for example) were never properly recorded by Pink Floyd. The solution to this is in the second rule: we will substitute some unavailable tracks for other similar ones, assuming they are still from this same era. Likewise we will try to avoid using previously-released tracks (“Pow R Toc H” or any section of “A Saucerful of Secrets”, for example) so that this album reconstruction can fit into any continuity you desire. The Azimuth Coordinator sound effects are also omitted, as I believe it fits better for a live performance rather than a studio album. I also chose to condense each set to fit on its own side of an LP, limited to 24 minutes.

    Side A—The Man—remains unaltered from my previous version of this reconstruction. The Man wakes at “Daybreak” (“Grantchester Meadows” from Ummagumma) and then goes to “Work (since this musical piece was never recorded by Pink Floyd, we will use a similar-sounding track, “Sysyphus Part III” from Ummagumma). “Tea Time” is omitted from my reconstruction, as it seemed more of a performance piece and less effective as an album recording. “Afternoon” follows (“Biding My Time” from Relics), as well as the track “Doing It!” meant to represent sexual intercourse (often a Nick Mason drum solo, Pink Floyd often used either “Up the Khyber”, “Syncopated Pandemonium” or “The Grand Vizier’s Garden Party (Entertainment)” for this; here I use the later from Ummagumma). Next the Man falls asleep (using an edited version of “Quicksilver” from More) and slips into a “Nightmare” (as represented by “Cymbaline” also from More). The side concludes with the Man waking from his dream to the next day’s “Daybreak” (a short edit of "Grantchester Meadows").

    Side B—The Journey—begins with the pilgrim leaving the British pastoral countryside (“Green is the Colour” from More) by sea, when they are soon “Beset By Creatures of The Deep” (depicted by “Careful With That Axe Eugene” from Relics). The pilgrim’s ship plows through a 'horrid storm' (as depicted by “The Narrow Way III” from Ummagumma) and finally arrive on land, moving through a “Pink Jungle” (while Pink Floyd performed “Pow R Toc H” for this piece, here we will substitute a different ‘tribal’ track based around a rolling bass riff: an edit of “Main Theme” from More). Our adventurers next creep through the “Labyrinth of Auximenes” (this piece often featured the bassline to the verses of “Let There Be More Light” juxtaposed with guitar effects and ominous drums; when stripped of the bass line, we are left with a track reminiscent of the first few minutes of “The Grand Vizier’s Garden Party II” from Ummagumma, which I used here) and “Behold The Temple of Light” (looping the chord sequence from “The Narrow Way II” also from Ummagumma). “The End of The Beginning” is a problematic conclusion to the album, as any use of “Celestial Voices” would be reusing an old track, not to mention an anticlimax if using the subdued studio version that lacks the bombast of how it was performed for “The Man and The Journey”. Here, we will substitute a different song that features a very similar organ passage: “Cirrus Minor” from More. Not only are we then concluding the album on an actual song, but also it references a journey and features bird sound effects, a reoccurring motif of the performance."
    Them: "will you ever just conform?"
    Me: "Yes! one day I will die just like all the rest".

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    461 Ocean Blvd
    Posts
    901
    Thanks
    696
    Thanked 1,805 Times in 76 Posts

    Default

    I like the fly buzzing effect on Grantchester Meadows,especially the foot steps,the rolling up of a newspaper and the swat at the end. Other than that,I don't care much about the studio side. But the live side on the other hand..

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    197
    Thanks
    917
    Thanked 737 Times in 20 Posts

    Default Sysyphus wrong tracking on EVERY CD Version since 1987!

    Quote Originally Posted by snagu View Post
    OK, another update... What's with the track splits of the parts of Sysyphus on the CD version? I skipped to part 4, supposedly almost 7 minutes long, and about halfway through it fades out completely, then starts the build up to the reprise of the initial theme.
    I own "several species" of "Ummagumma" on CD and each one has the same tracking errors on the "sysyphus" suite! I should be tracked as follows:

    Track 1 & 2 = Part 1 (4:39)
    Track 3 = Part 2 (1:49)
    Track 4. 1st half (0:00 - 3:13) = Part 3 (3:13)
    Track 4, 2nd half (3:13 - 6:59) = Part 4 (3:46).

    I made my corrected Ummagumma Studio Album with AVS converter...

    By the way: as anyone over here ever heard of this release?

    http://www.kaos-sound.co.uk/KSR/Artw...imenes%202.jpg

    Not to be conufused with that one:

    http://www.kaos-sound.co.uk/KSR/Artw...0auximenes.jpg

    Kindly regards

    H.M.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    192
    Thanks
    181
    Thanked 42 Times in 3 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Meddle View Post
    I own "several species" of "Ummagumma" on CD and each one has the same tracking errors on the "sysyphus" suite! I should be tracked as follows:

    Track 1 & 2 = Part 1 (4:39)
    Track 3 = Part 2 (1:49)
    Track 4. 1st half (0:00 - 3:13) = Part 3 (3:13)
    Track 4, 2nd half (3:13 - 6:59) = Part 4 (3:46).
    Thanks for providing your timings. I'd originally thought that while the timing was just a little bit off between track 1 and track 2, they could plausibly represent parts 1 and 2 due to being two musically different themes joined with a segue. But listening again, I'm sure your timings are correct because there are three distinct complete fades, so they must represent the demarcation between the parts.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    197
    Thanks
    917
    Thanked 737 Times in 20 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snagu View Post
    Thanks for providing your timings. I'd originally thought that while the timing was just a little bit off between track 1 and track 2, they could plausibly represent parts 1 and 2 due to being two musically different themes joined with a segue. But listening again, I'm sure your timings are correct because there are three distinct complete fades, so they must represent the demarcation between the parts.
    You're welcome, snagu!

    Kindly regards

    H.M.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    3,746
    Thanks
    476
    Thanked 28,432 Times in 355 Posts

    Default

    Does anyone have any views on the best sounding copy of the studio album?

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    154
    Thanks
    343
    Thanked 71 Times in 1 Post

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex View Post
    All that said there is a blog I have been following for a few years now 'Albums That Never Were by SonicLoveNoize' a few months ago he did a redo of a previous attempt at a TMTJ studio version. He also has many more albums worth looking at including 4 albums made on the premise that Syd never left the group. quality stuff and professionally mixed.
    I agree with what Rex says above. If you haven't heard these 'reimagined' albums, they're definitely worth checking out. In excellent quality, a great deal of thought and care has gone into their production. Every so often I play one of them to hear music from that era and they just have a 'flow' that's a joy to listen to. There are several non-Floyd albums there too that are worth hearing.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    593
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked 825 Times in 13 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neonknight View Post
    Does anyone have any views on the best sounding copy of the studio album?
    Wasn't there some agreement that recent vinyl reissues were winners? Ok, I guess that a very early UK or Jap copy might be something special, but there were in general excellent feedbacks about latest editions.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •