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Thread: Identifying Dates Of Demos On The Wall Immersion Set

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    Default Identifying Dates Of Demos On The Wall Immersion Set

    Hi,

    Does anyone know the dates of the demos that are on the The Wall Immersion set? It's very confusing to work out. Would love to know which ones are from the Jan 79 or Mar 79 band demos.

    Could someone help out? Or maybe point me to a related thread. I've searched but can't find any good info on it.

    Many thanks in advance for your help

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    I would like to know that as well, but I'm not sure anyone has put that together here. There are demo track names and lots of details in the CN book that help identify which demo tracks came from which assembled production demo. Several of the same demos were repeated across the various album production demos, and that is made more confusing because the Immersion set disks repeat several identical demos 2 and 3x, sometimes listing them as band demos and sometimes Roger Waters demos.

    The Immersion demos that are from Roger's original demo tape are kind of obvious. I think there were around 6 demos that were repeated twice in the Immersion set, and a couple are repeated 3x. Empty Spaces is on there twice as a band demo, once as a Roger demo. They are all the exact same RW demo. Same with Goodbye Cruel World.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kit Rae View Post
    I would like to know that as well, but I'm not sure anyone has put that together here. There are demo track names and lots of details in the CN book that help identify which demo tracks came from which assembled production demo. Several of the same demos were repeated across the various album production demos, and that is made more confusing because the Immersion set disks repeat several identical demos 2 and 3x, sometimes listing them as band demos and sometimes Roger Waters demos.

    The Immersion demos that are from Roger's original demo tape are kind of obvious. I think there were around 6 demos that were repeated twice in the Immersion set, and a couple are repeated 3x. Empty Spaces is on there twice as a band demo, once as a Roger demo. They are all the exact same RW demo. Same with Goodbye Cruel World.
    Many thanks Kit Rae - I know, it is so confusing, but your information has made it a little clearer to me. Still, I think they could have made a better job of the Immersion set than they did, it just doesn't make sense !!!

    Thanks very much for your reply.

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    This was posted in a thread on the forum a good while ago. It was thread 27466 but seems to be gone now. I took some text and screen captures a long time ago that still show the thread number. I've attached one of the images I found most useful and can attach more later if no one else can find the thread.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by MGoBlue1989; 2019-03-12 at 05:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGoBlue1989 View Post
    This was posted in a thread on the forum a good while ago. I'm still looking for the thread and will post if I find it.
    Hi MGoBlue1989,

    That would be fantastic! I tried search on the forums and couldn't find anything on it.

    Many thanks MGoBlue1989

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    No problem at all. See pic in my original reply and I've included the notes I kept below:

    =====

    Hi Guys,

    I started comparing the demos presented on The Wall Immersion Edition with the existing info on the 4 Wall Demos done by the band or band members. These include:
    Demo 1 - Roger Waters Home Demo "Bricks In The Wall" - Summer 1978
    Demo 2 - Pink Floyd Production Demo 1 - January 1979
    Demo 3 - Pink Floyd Production Demo 2 - March 1979
    Demo 4 - Pink Floyd Production Demo 3 - August 1979

    The first demos presented on the set are easy to identify as they are clearly labelled as being from Roger Waters original demo tape, "Bricks In The Wall". This tape dates from the summer of 1978, or at least that's when Pink Floyd as a band reviewed the tape. From Vernon Fitch and Richard Mahon's excellent book, "Comfortably Numb" we know the tracklisting of the original demo tape is as follows:

    We'll Meet Again (Disc 5 Track 1 - Prelude (Vera Lynn))
    Brick 1: Reminiscing (Disc 5 Track 2 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2)
    Mother (Disc 5 Track 3 - Mother)
    Brick 2: Education (Disc 5 Track 5 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2)
    Teacher, Teacher
    Young Lust (Disc 5 Track 4 - Young Lust)
    instrumental interlude (Disc 5 Track 10?? - Goodbye Blue Sky)
    Sexual Revolution
    Don't Leave Me Now (Disc 5 Track 9 & 11 - Don't Leave Me Now)
    Brick 3: Drugs (Disc 5 Track 12 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 3)
    Empty Spaces (Disc 5 Track 6 - Empty Spaces)
    Backs To The Wall (Disc 5 Track 8 - Backs To The Wall)
    Goodbye Cruel World (Disc 5 Track 13 - Goodbye Cruel World)
    Bleeding Hearts (Disc 5 Track 22 - Outside The Wall)
    Follow The Worms (Disc 5 Track 19 - Waiting For The Worms)
    Death Disco (Disc 5 Track 20 - Run Like Hell)
    Is There Anybody Out There? (Disc 5 Track 15 - Is There Anybody Out There?)
    Vera (Disc 5 Track 16 - Vera)
    Bring The Boys Back Home (Disc 5 Track 17 - Bring The Boys Back Home)
    Is There Anybody Out There? [blues version]
    Hey You (Disc 5 Track 14 - Hey You)
    Trial By Puppet (Disc 5 Track 21 - The Trial)
    Who's Sorry Now / It's Never Too Late (Disc 5 Track 18 - The Show Must Go On)
    instrumental theme

    I've highlighted the tracks in RED that are made available in the Wall Immersion set (albeit snippets). Outlined below is the evidence or opinions I'm using to reach my conclusion. The only real stretch is calling "instrumental interlude" an early version of "Goodbye Blue Sky". I'm doing this based on it's place in the suite only. It's entirely possible Roger demoed this song after the original demo and James Guthrie mixed it into this medley for the Immersion set.
    We'll Meet Again / Prelude (Vera Lynn)

    Vernon's book notes the following - "the original Vera Lynn song, which eventually blends with fuzz guitars, and cross-fades into bombers, string synth pads, a helicopter and ends with Roger playing notes in octaves on his bass". Although this all isn't present in the snippet presented on Disc 5 track 1 on Disc 5 Track 23 the full version is presented and confirms this (blends into the beginning of track 24).

    Mother / Mother
    Self-explanatory.
    Brick 2: Education / Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2
    Self-explanatory.
    Young Lust / Young Lust
    Self-explanatory.
    Don't Leave Me Now / Don't Leave Me Now
    Self-explanatory.
    Brick 3: Drugs / Another Brick In The Wall, Part 3
    Self-explanatory
    Empty Spaces / Empty Spaces
    Self-explanatory
    Backs To The Wall
    Self-explanatory
    Goodbye Cruel World / Goodbye Cruel World
    Self-explanatory
    Bleeding Hearts / Outside The Wall
    Vernon notes "this became Outside The Wall".
    Follow The Worms / Waiting The Worms
    Vernon notes "this became Waiting For The Worms".
    Death Disco / Run Like Hell
    Admittedly I'm making a small jump here. But based on the fact that Vernon notes, "this song contains the seeds of 'Are there any queers in the theatre tonight? Get 'em up against the wall', etc., plus early elements of what became the guitar riff for 'Young Lust'" I think it's a safe bet. In addition throughout the 1980-81 tour Roger introduced Run Like Hell as "disco" music.
    Is There Anybody Out There? / Is there Anybody Out There?
    Self-explanatory
    Vera / Vera
    Self-explanatory
    Bring The Boys Back Home / Bring The Boys Back Home
    Self-explanatory
    Hey You / Hey You
    Self-explanatory
    Trial By Puppet / The Trial
    Vernon notes "an early version of 'The Trial'"
    Who's Sorry Now / It's Never Too Late & The Show Must Go On
    Vernon notes "this became 'The Show Must Go On'"

    Overall the songs from the original Waters demo that aren't represented here are Teacher Teacher, Sexual Revolution, Is There Anybody Out There? [blues version], instrumental theme.

    The 2nd demo of The Wall done by the band at Britannia Row Studios in early 1979 with the assistance of James Guthrie to show progress to Bob Ezrin as he joined the sessions that winter. According to Vernon Fitch and Richard Mahon's excellent book the track listing of this demo was as follows:
    We'll Meet Again (Disc 5 Track 23 - Prelude (Vera Lynn))
    Reminiscing (Disc 5 Track 24 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 1)
    Thin Ice (Disc 5 Track 25 - The Thin Ice)
    Good-Bye Blue Sky (Disc 5 Track 26 - Goodbye Blue Sky)
    Teacher, Teacher (Disc 5 Track 27 - Teacher, Teacher)
    Another Brick In The Wall (AKA Education) (Disc 5, Track 28 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2)
    Young Lust (Disc 5 Track 30 - Young Lust)
    Mother (Disc 5 Track 31 - Mother)
    Don't Leave Me Now (Disc 5 Track 32 - Don't Leave Me Now)
    Sexual Revolution (Disc 5 Track 33 - Sexual Revolution)
    Another Brick In The Wall (AKA Drugs) (Disc 5 Track 34 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 3)
    Backs To The Wall (Disc 5 Track 29 - Empty Spaces)
    Bleeding Hearts (Disc 6 Track 11 - Outside The Wall)
    Is There Anybody Out There?
    Vera
    Bring The Boys Back Home
    Is There Anybody Out There? [blues version]
    Hey You
    Comfortably Numb (The Doctor) (Disc 6 Track 5 - The Doctor (Comfortably Numb))
    Run Like Hell (Disc 6 Track 7 - Run Like Hell)
    Follow The Worms
    Trial By Puppet (Disc 6 Track 9 - The Trial)
    Never Too Late (Disc 6 Track 14 - It's Never Too Late)
    instrumental theme (Disc 6 Track 12 - The Thin Ice (reprise))


    I've highlighted the tracks in RED that are made available in the Wall Immersion set. Outlined below is the evidence or opinions I'm using to reach my conclusion.
    We'll Meet Again / Prelude (Vera Lynn)
    Matches the original demo by Roger Waters listed above.
    Reminiscing / Another Brick In The Wall, Part 1
    Vernon notes "Another Brick In The Wall, Part 1 but with different lyrics".
    Thin Ice / The Thin Ice
    Self-explanatory
    Good-bye Blue Sky / Goodbye Blue Sky
    Self-explanatory
    Teacher, Teacher / Teacher, Teacher
    Self-explanatory
    Another Brick In The Wall (AKA: Education) / Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2
    Self-explanatory
    Young Lust / Young Lust
    Self-explanatory
    Mother / Mother
    Self-explanatory. Vernon notes "with the guitar solo already written".
    Don't Leave Me Now / Don't Leave Me Now
    Self-explanatory
    Sexual Revolution / Sexual Revolution
    Self-explanatory
    Another Brick In The Wall (AKA: Drugs) / Another Brick In The Wall, Part 3
    Self-explanatory
    Backs To The Wall / Empty Spaces
    I'm assuming this is edited. Vernon notes "this is combination of the songs 'Empty Spaces' and 'What Shall We Do Now?' yet we only hear the 'Empty Spaces' part here.
    Bleeding Hearts / Goodbye Cruel World
    Self-explanatory
    Comfortably Numb (The Doctor) / Comfortably Numb
    Vernon notes "a shorter version of 'Comfortably Numb', but with the middle guitar solo already written".
    Run Like Hell / Run Like Hell
    Self-explanatory
    Follow The Worms / Waiting For The Worms
    Self-explanatory
    Trial By Puppet / The Trial
    Vernon notes, "this became 'The Trial', and is a Kurt Weill mock-up on Prophet synthesizer"
    Never Too Late / It's Never Too Late
    Self-explanatory
    instrumental theme / The Thing Ice (reprise)
    Vernon notes, "part 2 of "The Thin Ice"
    The 3rd demo of The Wall done by the band at Britannia Row Studios in the Spring of 1979 with Bob Ezrin was to mark progress before production moved to France and Super Bear studios. General consensus is that "Under Construction" is either this demo or dates from close to this time. As a result I'm making that assumption. Ron Toon did soem great work regarding the Immersion Edition and identical tracks on "Under Construction" I've summarized below. According to Vernon Fitch and Richard Mahon's excellent book the track listing of the 3rd demo was as follows:
    The Show (Disc 5 Track 36 - In The Flesh) & (Under Construction Track 1)
    Thin Ice (Disc 5 Track 37 - The Thin Ice) & (Under Construction Track 2)
    Brick 1: Reminiscing (Disc 5 Track 38 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 1) & (Under Construction Track 3)
    Happiest Days (Disc 5 Track 39 - The Happiest Days Of Our Lives) & (Under Construction Track 4)
    Another Brick In The Wall: Education (Disc 5 Track 40 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2) & (Under Construction Track 5)
    Mother (Disc 5 Track 41 - Mother) & (Under Construction Track 6)
    Goodbye Blue Sky (Under Construction Track 7)
    Empty Spaces (Under Construction Track 8)
    Young Lust (Under Construction Track 9)
    One Of My Turns (Disc 6 Track 16 - One Of My Turns) & (Under Construction Track 10)
    Don't Leave Me Now (Disc 6 Track 17 - Don't Leave Me Now) & (Under Construction Track 11)
    Backs To The Wall (Disc 6 Track 18, 19 - Empty Spaces / Backs To The Wall) & (Under Construction Track 12)
    Another Brick In The Wall: Drugs (Disc 6 Track 20 - Another Brick In The Wall, Part 3) & (Under Construction Track 13)
    Goodbye Cruel World (Disc 6 Track 21 - Goodbye Cruel World) & (Under Construction Track 14)
    Is There Anybody Out There? (Disc 6 Track 1 - Is There Anybody Out There?) & (Under Construction Track 15)
    Vera (Disc 6 Track 2 - Vera) & (Under Construction Track 16)
    Bring The Boys Back Home (Disc 6 Track 3 - Bring The Boys Back Home) & (Under Construction Track 17)
    Is There Anybody Out There? [blues version] (Under Construction Track 18 & 19)
    The Doctor (Under Construction Track 20)
    Hey You (Disc 6 Track 4 - Hey You) & (Under Construction Track 21)
    It's Never Too Late / The Show Must Go On (Under Construction Track 22)
    The Show (Disc 6 Track 6 - In The Flesh) & (Under Construction Track 23)
    Run Like Hell (Under Construction Track 24)
    Waiting For The Worms (Disc 6 Track 8 - Waiting For The Worms) & (Under Construction Track 25)
    Stop (Under Construction Track 26)
    Trial By Puppets (Under Construction Track 27)
    Outside The Wall (Disc 6 Track 13 - Outside The Wall) & (Under Construction Track 28)


    The Show Must Go On on the 'Under Construction' bootleg is different than both versions on The Wall Immersion Set, again corroborating that Under Construction is a demo made between the main Floyd demos for the album. Run Like Hell on the 'Under Construction' bootleg is just a re-recorded version of the Original David Gilmour Demo with over dubbed crowd sound effects.


    The 4th and final demo of The Wall was done in August 1979 as a final production demo. According to Vernon Fitch and Richard Mahon's excellent book the track listing of this demo was as follows:
    The Show
    Thin Ice
    Another Brick In The Wall, Part 1
    The Happiest Days Of Our Lives
    Another Brick In the Wall, Part 2
    Mother
    Goodbye Blue Sky
    Empty Spaces
    Young Lust
    One Of My Turns
    Don't Leave Me Now
    Empty Spaces / What Shall We Do Now?
    Another Brick In The Wall, Part 3
    Goodbye Cruel World
    Is There Anybody Out There?
    Nobody Home
    Vera
    Bring The Boys Back Home
    The Doctor (Comfortably Numb) (Disc 6 Track 15 - The Doctor)
    Hey You
    The Show Must Go On (Disc 6 Track 10 - The Show Must Go On)
    The Show
    Run Like Hell
    Waiting For The Worms
    Stop
    Trial By Puppet
    Outside The Wall (Disc 6 Track 13 - Outside The Wall)

    Obviously all of these guesses are just that, guesses. My hope is that by posting this I will open up discussion and we can reach a general conclusion regarding the timeframe of these newly released demos.

    Thanks
    - Mike



    ====

    Originally Posted by *******
    [...] I like MOB's theory which he recently posted on AFG...

    I think "Under Constrcution" could be the last of the 4 demos (the one from August 1979). Let me explain...

    We have 4 different demos of Comfortably Numb, and the chronological order can be identified if we listen to them carefully. Here's the chrononological order as I see it:

    1) Gilmour demo (disc 6 track 22): obviously the first demo, 1978

    2) disc 6 track 15: this version is still close to the original demo, with added lyrics, all of them being sung by Gilmour (verses and chorus)

    3) disc 6 track 5: on that version, Waters sings the verses, with a melody still close to the one sung by Gilmour. That version is more elaborated than the previous one because the first guitar solo is already well developped on that version.

    4) Under Construction: the phrasing of the verses is completely changed by Waters (almost spoken lyrics, instead of sung lyrics) and is closer to the final version (even if the silly "physician, magician" lyrics are there). The ending solo is still to be finalised, but that version is more developped than the previous ones.

    So the conclusion could be:
    - disc 6 track 15 = January 1979
    - disc 6 track 5 = March 1979
    - Under Construction = August 1979


    =====


    Originally Posted by danielcaux
    Great work! I would add this minor correction though.

    Looking at Fitch and Mahon's setlist for the second demo, and comparing that to CD6 Programme 1 setlist I would say that:

    "Never Too Late" doesn't refers to [CD6 Track 14 - It's Never Too Late"] but actually to [CD6 Track 10 - "The Show Must Go On"]

    And if CD6 Programme 1 is indeed part of the first band demo (2nd Demo overall), according to Fitch and Mahon's setlist it would mean that "Instrumental Theme" is not only [CD6 Track 12 - The Thin Ice (reprise)] but probably also refers to the instrumental version of "Outside The Wall" that precedes it [CD6 Track 11]. Meaning that your list should look more like this:

    Trial By Puppet (Disc 6 Track 9 - The Trial)
    Never Too Late (Disc 6 Track 11 - The Show Must Go On)
    Instrumental Theme (Disc 6 Track 11 & 12 Outside The Wall and The Thin Ice Reprise)

    Which leaves me thinking that the track named "It's Never To Late" (with the "Oh it's not easy" lyrics) is actually a mislabel by the people who wrote the "new" setlist for this Immersion box. Probably back then that "track" was just the continuation or second part of the "Outside The Wall" demo (second band demo) so probably it didn't even had a name, and they got confused because that title appears at the end of the set after The Trial so they thought that was the name of this "unknown" closing track.

    "Never Too Late" obviously refers to "The Show Must Go On" demo which has that lyrics at the end, and which was placed AFTER The Trial (Prophet Synth version), just like we can see in both Fitch's setlist for the first band demo AND CD6 Programme 1.

    Any opinions?
    I completely agree. I've been meaning to write an update to my original post as I was also thinking about this exact issue the other day. Great Work!

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    Oh wow - thank you so much PMMGoBlue1989! This is fantastic.

    I couldn't open your image, it wouldn't let me save or download it.

    Thank you once again.

    UPDATE: Just as I posted this reply, I found I could access the image. Thank you very much for your help.

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    Does any of the MOther recordings contain nick mason on the drums?

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    Nick is playing on both Mother demos.

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    Well Im liking this thread....LOL

    I have been re arranging my Immersion track listing all day with the notes added here.

    On a seperate release, is the Under Construction CD the 4th Demo from Aug 79 ?

    Im thinking the following on Under Construction are from RWs 78 Original demo;

    15 - Is There Anybody Out There? Pt1
    16 - Vera
    17 - Bring The Boys Back Home
    18 - Is There Anybody Out There? Pt2
    19 - Is There Anybody Out There? Pt 3

    Am I correct does anyone know ?

    Cheers
    YYZ

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