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Thread: Two studio master tapes, containing songs recorded by PF at Pye Studiios Feb 1969

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennyif View Post
    Ah, that's really cool! Thanks for posting this! It's good to finally know what this song is like as a full length song and not just excerpts.

    I do wonder why they left it off of the album. Is there any information on that to be found anywhere?

    Would be cool if Nick's band played it whenever their next tour can go ahead. Seabirds and One in A Million would be really cool... anyway, Thanks for all the interesting reading in this thread everyone!
    if the verses are close to "The Body" acoustic material by Roger, or "More" acoustic, the chorus makes me think of a variation of the chorus of "Point Me At The Sky" (which was a kind of "another" Beatles "Baby You're A Rich Man" chorus - the arrangements of "Point Me At The Sky" emphasized the Beatles-like of this 45rps. Probably under Norman Smith's influence or "pressure" to go into pop-psychedelic)

    perhaps that if the chorus was sung by David Gilmour with a ragging voice; this would sound closer to "The Nile Song" or "Ibiza Bar" than the pop-psyche attempt with "Point Me At The Sky".
    But that's a great cover- based on ? lyrics + chords transcription ? or imaginary cover ?

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    Gosh, and to think that there was once a time when I actually thought that I knew a thing or two about Pink Floyd. To say that this community has a formidable group of sleuths and experts is an understatement!

    By the way, there are some other nice Pink Floyd related items in the auction too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outside The Wall View Post
    Just one point to make about 'Cirrus Minor': yes, the (Blackburn) Cirrus Minor was an aircraft engine, and Roger Waters may have been thinking about that, but, surely the title of the song and the lyric is referring to a small (minor) cloud (cirrus)!
    Perhaps both at once? But either way, 'tis something in the sky, one thinks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lennyif View Post
    Would be cool if Nick's band played it whenever their next tour can go ahead. Seabirds and One in A Million would be really cool... anyway, Thanks for all the interesting reading in this thread everyone!
    One in a Million, another Roger tune that seems to have vanished but for its one outing. I wonder if there is (or was ever) a demo anywhere in Roger's archives?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrs View Post
    I guess another possibility was the faster speed was used because the track had vocals and was a better song so they wanted the better quality
    An interesting note is that, while 30 ips is theoretically better, engineers will often use 15 ips if they want to prioritize better bass response over low noise and pristine high-end. Since GITC (initially) had no bass, maybe 30 ips had its merits for that one song?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lennyif View Post
    Just an observation on the idea that Cirrus Minor originated before the More sessions. One of those Capital session tracks from 1968 has the verse chord progression of Cirrus Minor in it. The other track sounds like Hollywood of course. Apologies if others have pointed out the Cirrus minor connection and I missed it.
    Oh, jeez, that's embarrassing! Roger's Boogie, of course -- from 0:51, 100% identical to the Cirrus Minor progression. Totally forgot about that -- I meant to relisten to it and simply forgot to.

    Well, that establishes the genesis of the underlying composition beyond a doubt, to 1968. Roger's Boogie was recorded on 1968-08-22, and yet they returned to that chord sequence and picking pattern twice more -- once for Science Session on 1968-12-17 (intending to do what with it?), and then again for the More sessions proper.

    Or did they go back to it in February? Maybe some or all of Cirrus Minor was 100% done before the More sessions -- and, more speculatively, maybe the intro to Main Theme was also recorded before the sessions.

    Check out the multitrack tape box for Main Theme, and notice how it talks about tracks 5-8 being overdubs -- 6 and 8 being organ, 5 is "cymbol [sic]/gong", and 7 was scratched out but is almost readable: "cymbol/loud delay", maybe? And those annotations -- organ track 4 is "rhythm", 6 is "tune 1", 7 is "tune 2" (suggesting that the old track 7 was erased and replaced with a new organ track), and 8 is "effect".

    Normally I'd think those were all overdubs made during the sessions. But what if they actually dumped 4 tracks of an existing recording onto tracks 5-8 instead, and just kind of mashed them up -- then re-recording over one of those tracks with additional organ that was deemed necessary?

    I'm tempted to think Main Theme is a composite, with the entire intro recorded on 1968-12-17, i.e. the organ and gong we hear in the outro to Science Session, and the rest recorded during the February sessions. On the album track, the main riff cuts in abruptly after the first minute or so -- it doesn't fade in gradually at all, but just kind of starts mid-phrase at about 1:11. It's a pretty clumsy edit, in fact.

    Also interesting to hear a little bit of falsetto singing while they're recording "Cirrus Minor" on Science Session, from about 1:14-1:25. That style of singing doesn't show up on Cirrus Minor at all -- it almost sounds like someone (Nick? Roger? Norman Smith?) is imitating the falsetto parts of Roger's Boogie. Maybe Roger's Boogie is exactly what it still was at that point, and they were either trying to remake it or complete it, "Gabriel came to the stable last night" lyrics and all?

    Quote Originally Posted by marksturdy View Post
    That assumes that whoever wrote that was in full possession of the facts, and describing the TEY 'Seabirds' as "never heard before" rather suggests not...
    In fairness, it's not altogether easy to match Quicksilver to "Seabirds [sic]" (in terms of nailing down that they're the exact same performance). I don't blame them for not realizing that part, or for not meticulously matching the mono mixdown reel's content to the movie -- it'd be understandable if they'd titled it as an unheard, alternate take of Quicksilver.

    What I don't understand is how the title "came loose" from a named Waters composition that had lyrics, was used in the movie, and got anthologized in a songbook! Waterpipe vs. Quicksilver would be one thing, but Seabirds is not just a title for a generic piece of instrumental filler, but a song named Seabirds with lyrics about seabirds, and that somehow got published.

    But yeah, the claim that the reel they had was unused material is nonsense. As far as I can tell, it's the exact opposite -- it's the very mono mixes used in the movie. What other reason would the band have to keep a mono reference copy of their work? They had no long-standing affection for mono, and every interest in multichannel audio.
    Last edited by goldenband; 2021-04-06 at 06:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenband View Post
    7 was scratched out but is almost readable: "cymbol/loud delay", maybe?
    My first reaction when I read this was "Cymbol / Hand Drum". Now that it is suggested, I can see Loud Delay as a possibility as well.

    Regarding the Mono Copy: I just noticed that the 3 horizontal dashes on the exhibition reel seem to correspond with the 3 tracks that (may) have vocals. It's been stated by someone officially that the track released on The Early Years was labeled Seabirds on the box, and I think we've concluded to a very high percentage that this reel is the source for those 4 TEY tracks. So what do those 3 dashes mean if not to denote a track with vocals? And is someone lying for some reason, or was the mistake made in 1969 when these titles were written?

    On another note, I see the Their Mortal Remains Exhibition is opening in Los Angeles in May 2021. Hopefully someone able to go could get a higher resolution photo if possible so the numbers on the masking tape could be read.

    https://www.vmmla.com/
    Last edited by rivrs; 2021-04-07 at 02:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivrs View Post
    On another note, I see the Their Mortal Remains Exhibition is opening in Los Angeles in May 2021. Hopefully someone able to go could get a higher resolution photo if possible so the numbers on the masking tape could be read.[/URL]
    Mortal Remains is a very different exhibition to the one I went to in Paris in 2003. When I saw Their Mortal Remains in London it didn't feature the More reel.

    I think Yeeshkul compresses pictures, so here's a link to the full res versions. Not particularly high res; I was using a reasonable compact point and shoot camera at the time.

    https://we.tl/t-PFTgydWxKk

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    Quote Originally Posted by neonknight View Post
    Mortal Remains is a very different exhibition to the one I went to in Paris in 2003. When I saw Their Mortal Remains in London it didn't feature the More reel.

    I think Yeeshkul compresses pictures, so here's a link to the full res versions. Not particularly high res; I was using a reasonable compact point and shoot camera at the time.

    https://we.tl/t-PFTgydWxKk
    Oh, this was from 2003! I thought this showed up much more recently. Thanks for the clarification and sharing the full res image.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beechwoods View Post
    Thanks for the further details! I have a couple of early UK VHS releases and I know Neon has a French VHS from the early 90’s. I think we should dig these out for a full comparison!
    My French VHS is missing high end and is very hissy. Pelino spent some time working on my transfer in February and we concluded that the project should be abandoned.

    I have had the files from nipote's thread for a long time too and they didn't come with a text file. I haven't downloaded nipote's version but my files are dated 16 March 2007.

    A VHS source could offer the best sound and I think we should start by investigating the US versions. Perhaps one of these two?

    http://www.pinkfloydarchives.com/DUSVHS.htm#MoreVHS1

    They are both for sale on eBay but rather expensive. Surely members here own copies? Perhaps they could also post some samples?

    There is an earlier French VHS than my copy that I'd like to hear: http://www.pinkfloydarchives.com/DFrVHSPF.htm#More

    I sense that this search could turn out surprisingly well; a bit like the UK mono Pompeii and its successor, the 1986 stereo.
    Last edited by neonknight; 2021-04-07 at 08:34 AM.

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    If the Floyd do manage to retrieve these tapes, I wonder what the chances are of them doing anything with them..

    I'd say that More was a better candidate for a remix than anything else in the Floyd catalogue - certainly more so than OBC. It was obviously recorded and mixed very quickly and I think that comes across in the rather flat sound that doesn't always do justice to the material.

    Probably not going to happen, especially as the other multitrack reels are missing in action, but a deluxe remixed More, including a more thorough exploration of the mono reel that may or may not include the real Seabirds, is a cool thing to dream about.

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    On a sidetopic....

    I want to make contact with someone who has the 2011 Blu-Ray release of the film?
    Send me a message.

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    If any member reading this thread has deep pockets and is seriously considering bidding for the reels, I'd be pleased to help you by sharing what I know about them. Background info that doesn't add to the discussion here but could certainly inform anyone considering the investment. PM me if you would like to speak.

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