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Thread: Music, message and money - What comes first and how does it fit together?

  1. #21
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    Hi there, I saw the lights on and stepped in.

    Just wanted to say that in terms of ideals, I'll always be on Roger's side, period. Always to the left, never ever to the right. Then yes he was and still is a prick with his bandmates but I share his political views and the state of humanity. That being said, I'm not pro Russia nor pro US nor anything nor anti-anything. I condemn any form of violence and abuse from anyone and I surely condemn Russia invasion in Ukraine as I condemn all the US/European invasions they have been doing since forever and yes, all the invasions from any tribe to another since time began.

    Let's treat us nice to each other and try to debate, not to argue. And don't forget that, wars and violence are governments bussiness, it does not have to do with us, the people. Don't buy the sh*t they are selling, they will always try to keep us apart, because if we are apart from each other, they have the power. If we stick together as the race we are, we'll have the power to change things for good.

    Have a nice weekend everyone!
    Last edited by gotta_be_crazy; 2022-08-12 at 09:43 PM.
    Have you heard the word is love?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb33334 View Post
    As far as Roger's views go, I am not sure I understand them. To me they seem inconsistent and tough for me to reconcile. So I am not sure why they spark a liberal v. conservative argument. Usually I am just kind of baffled by most of the things he says. Would be interested to hear a discussion along these lines if possible to be civil.
    Man you really nailed it with this post. To the first part, they seem inconsistent because they are. He has always been about human rights yet he comes to the defense of Russia and China. The behavior and his beliefs are incongruent. I mean, I really really dislike Biden, but calling him a war criminal is just bizarre to me.

    As to your second point, it isn't a left or a right issue but it seems like some people really really want it to be. The polls are showing shockingly similar views between parties towards everything involving Russia and Ukraine here in the United States. Maybe its different in Europe.

    Lastly, politics ruins everything. I'd hate for it to ruin this place too.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb33334 View Post
    As far as Roger's views go, I am not sure I understand them. To me they seem inconsistent and tough for me to reconcile. So I am not sure why they spark a liberal v. conservative argument. Usually I am just kind of baffled by most of the things he says. Would be interested to hear a discussion along these lines if possible to be civil.
    I am in that boat a bit as well, and here's where I find a disconnect:

    1999 - 2017 he made a big show of being in love with the idea of performing for audiences again. In 2017 with the Us and Them tour, I recall him saying that the whole thing was about Us, the people, vs. Them the Political and Business elites who do not act in the best interests of Us. Fine and well. Along the way there have been bits of things that I disagree with, but who cares. I feel that his intentions are good. It's about finding common ground and unity. A worthy message and intention.

    2022 - "**** off to the bar". Well, ok. So it's not about universal love and unity and all that then, is it? He wants to preach to the choir, not bring people of opposing views along and make a case to them and find common ground. **** off to the bar with you and your views if they are not mine... I have long found his "new" smiling happy new millennium Roger persona to be slightly disingenuous. More of a tactical change after poor ticket sales and a failed lawsuit from 1984 - 1987. It became more apparent to me with a few things over the past few years. The Animals liner notes, twitter videos complaining about the Floyd Facebook page, taking a personal swipe at Polly, the bombastic yet shallow Trump imagery in 2017 (as much as I despise Trump, the imagery was grade school level and cheap), Roger's attitude with interviewers, and probably more clues that I can't recall at the moment. All any of those things accomplish is alienating people. I thought his grand message was to bring people together and tear down walls. He's still building walls. He's not trying to persuade anyone with his ideas. You can get on his boat if you agree, otherwise you can **** off to the bar. How does anyone benefit from that? In an age where we need less alienation from each other, he is putting up more walls between people. This just confirms to me personally that my suspicions about his earnestness were justified. He's a brilliant man to be sure, but no one thinks more highly of him than he does. He bills himself as "The Creative Genius of Pink Floyd" after all.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lennyif View Post
    I am in that boat a bit as well, and here's where I find a disconnect:

    1999 - 2017 he made a big show of being in love with the idea of performing for audiences again. In 2017 with the Us and Them tour, I recall him saying that the whole thing was about Us, the people, vs. Them the Political and Business elites who do not act in the best interests of Us. Fine and well. Along the way there have been bits of things that I disagree with, but who cares. I feel that his intentions are good. It's about finding common ground and unity. A worthy message and intention.

    2022 - "**** off to the bar". Well, ok. So it's not about universal love and unity and all that then, is it? He wants to preach to the choir, not bring people of opposing views along and make a case to them and find common ground. **** off to the bar with you and your views if they are not mine... I have long found his "new" smiling happy new millennium Roger persona to be slightly disingenuous. More of a tactical change after poor ticket sales and a failed lawsuit from 1984 - 1987. It became more apparent to me with a few things over the past few years. The Animals liner notes, twitter videos complaining about the Floyd Facebook page, taking a personal swipe at Polly, the bombastic yet shallow Trump imagery in 2017 (as much as I despise Trump, the imagery was grade school level and cheap), Roger's attitude with interviewers, and probably more clues that I can't recall at the moment. All any of those things accomplish is alienating people. I thought his grand message was to bring people together and tear down walls. He's still building walls. He's not trying to persuade anyone with his ideas. You can get on his boat if you agree, otherwise you can **** off to the bar. How does anyone benefit from that? In an age where we need less alienation from each other, he is putting up more walls between people. This just confirms to me personally that my suspicions about his earnestness were justified. He's a brilliant man to be sure, but no one thinks more highly of him than he does. He bills himself as "The Creative Genius of Pink Floyd" after all.
    I very much agree an anything you pointed out, great post.

    I just can’t follow him and his views on things. It seems selfish and wrong.

    Someone here used the sentence i‘ll never forget: „Hammering you contentions that this may be fraud“. It fits so well…

    Best Nils

  5. #25
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    Again, we have moved to politics. I must admit, however, that Lennyif made a nice analysis on 'Waters changing over time'. Still, most of the replies for this thread were not dealing with my questions, but again with Roger Waters's political views. Hence, I have decided now to close 'my' thread. So, have a great weekend, either at the bar or at one of these days at one of those shows.

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